Contract Talk - comments, questions

[Buzz]

Please post your comments and/or questions about the new contract below.

(I'll add my 2 cents after you've had a chance first.)

[Carlos eveillard]

Not good at all and the new have two wait 11 years to get to the top

[yabba]

not a terrible contract for senior people... newbies i dont think its the answer and thats killing the pension...we need better for new hires 

[Carlos eveillard]

I know but we talking about new people

[Carlos eveillard]

Yes we do they going to lose a lot of people

[Buzz]

Yes we do they going to lose a lot of people

Carlos, if you don't mind my asking, what was your date of hire?

[John Eadicicco]

How do they expect to hire new drivers with this CBA?

[Buzz]

How do they expect to hire new drivers with this CBA?

This is a rarity, but I agree 100%.

[Buzz]

FWIW - All in all, I think it's a decent contract for people who are already here. People here 1 to 6 years will be getting immediate raises of approximately $100 to $300 per week, respectively. If they stuck it out for as long as they did for a little over $700 a week, I don't see any mass exodus of drivers based on this contract.

No, we didn't get back Presidents' Week. I can tell you it's not for a lack of trying. I spoke to Ernie at least a couple of evenings a week throughout the negotiations. They kept going back to the 40th week issue numerous times to no avail. Owners would simply not even entertain the notion or negotiate on it at all. At one point, Ernie came up with a compromise he hoped they would accept ... pay the difference between unemployment and our salary. Again, owners wouldn't even consider it. I appreciate 1181's perseverance nonetheless.

As for the unborn ... for the most part ... they will remain unborn. As soon as the weather warms up, more flies will be attracted to the men's room at Arthur Kill than new hires walking in asking for applications. This is another issue that I can tell you unequivocally that the union tried to improve upon repeatedly. It's just mind-numbing that the owners were completely indifferent to the need to sweeten the pot for prospective drivers ... despite the industry-wide shortage. It's almost as if they're bent on self-annihilation. In Erine's words, "They just don't give a fuck!"

Yes, we need more drivers and more members feeding the pension. But we've been short drivers for a couple of years now and the panic I sense from some people regarding the pension is very premature. There is no evidence that covering runs has hurt the fund in any way over the past year. If you refer to the summary for the year ending Dec. 31, 2017 you will see that the plan's income for the year was over $92 million while expenses were slightly over $85 million. No one knows what the years ahead will bring, but these figures would indicate there is no need for panic for the foreseeable future.

The fact that it took 10 months to reach an agreement itself speaks to the difficulty that this particular contract involved. When the "other side" walks out on the first 11 meetings you know absolutely no gains are going to come easy at all. It was a very fine line that Michael and the negotiation team had to walk to do the very best they could for us while being painfully aware that at any time the owners could end negotiations and impose a contract which would be much worse that we could either accept ... or go on strike.

In fact, there were times that the owners, namely Joe Curcio, (Consolidated). who is the ringleader that the others follow like sheep, actually challenged Michael to put us out on the street. That he was able to get us as much as he did dealing with a douchebag like Curcio is an accomplishment that I think too many people do not appreciate.

No, it might not be the best contract we've ever gotten, but because of the negotiating skill of Michael Cordiello, our executive board and negotiation team, it is certainly far from the worst.

Just my humble opinion.

[04012013]

I agree. The contract is decent for the 2013 hires. It gets better from now on.

I also agree that recruitment will be remain difficult but will be a bit easier to sell with the salary steps now in place.

As far as financial stability for the Pension, that will depend on recruitment.   In the mean time. Since we all agree that the uncovered runs should be covered by us and not forfeited, lets consider this.   Those volunteering to make extra $$ and those who say they are "forced" to cover the runs and make extra $$ should be mandated to contribute that runs pension contributions.  And, if their covering work for a trip run, should be covering the trips also!      This will benefit Everyone in the long run.

Just my humble opinion

[Buzz]

  Those volunteering to make extra $$ and those who say they are "forced" to cover the runs and make extra $$ should be mandated to contribute that runs pension contributions. 

Can't be done. There has to be a name to go with the contribution and everybody has to give the same amount based on a percentage of their regular weekly pay, not amount of additional income.  (Many people have had the same thought so I've inquired about this previously.)

[John Eadicicco]

Buzz your quoting pension monies from 2017!!!!!! By speaking to drivers from companies in other boro's it seems a conservative number throughout the industry is 500 drivers short. Reliant 100 short.
Based on these numbers a total of $60,000 weekly is NOT being contributed to pension? THAT is my biggest worry!

[Just_Right]

 John ...Where do you get your numbers from???

[hognol]

Curcio is the ring leader? I heard it was Neil!

[John Eadicicco]

I got my numbers from polling drivers in other companies and we came up with approximately 500 drivers short in the industry it's an estimate of the drivers plus the owners contributions into the fund!

[Buzz]

Buzz your quoting pension monies from 2017!!!!!!

Yes, John, I said 2017 ... that summary was sent to us at the end of this past December. Nonetheless, as of last month our pension is over 89% funded ... which is quite high.

[Buzz]

I got my numbers from polling drivers in other companies and we came up with approximately 500 drivers short in the industry it's an estimate of the drivers plus the owners contributions into the fund!

I got my numbers from our union delegate and he says the driver shortage is half or less than what your "poll" indicated and that Reliant is no where near 100 short.

[Buzz]

Curcio is the ring leader? I heard it was Neil!

Nah ... I'm told by people who are there at these meetings that old man Curcio, (not his son), is the one with the biggest mouth and who all the others ultimately follow. (But that's not to say that Neil and the others don't get their 2-cents in.)

[John Eadicicco]

How many are we short?

[Buzz]

How many are we short?

According to Ernie, 200-250.

[John Eadicicco]

Buzz how many pioneer si short?

[Buzz]

Not sure John ... think it's somewhere between 20 and 30 ... I'll find out.

[Just_Right]

Oh I'm sorry John..I didn't know you would answer so quick since there was a general membership meeting tonight.Which by the way YOU were not there.

And your polling does not make your numbers right.I spoke to Michael and asked this question.
And I spoke to John the Treasurer  and both confimed that your numbers are absolutely incorrect.

So once again your numbers and comments are not only eggaxareted and completely  WRONG.
Along with your 60,000 dollar figure is incorrect. So not sure where your getting your info from but maybe you should re-check your figures.

[Carlos eveillard]

2008

[John Eadicicco]

Well maybe you should know that the treasurer's name is Calixe..... and Michael has a problem with the truth!

[John Eadicicco]

I had a better offer of watching my granddaughter instead of going to a BS Union meeting

[Just_Right]

I know the Tresurer's Last name I didn't think it was neccessary to put it.However I will say this..Michael does not have a problem with the truth.His numbers were right along with everyone else's. But there are lots of people who have a problem with the truth...
So in truth ..You missed a good meeting.

But family comes first no matter what.


Oh and BTW..it's spelled Calixte....

[John Eadicicco]

I have serious concerns about the future of the pension system as this contract is NOT kind to new hires. I had a conversation with Michael right after the strike 6 years ago and brought up the point of new hires NOT getting a fair starting wage and benefits. I was at a table of 6 other Pioneer drivers and Michaels response was "I don't give a S..t about the unborn" We were all taken aback at his response... We (the six of us) all agreed that the future of the industry under this belief was in deep trouble. And looking at this contract reflects that opinion!!!! God help us!

[Just_Right]

Wait..

the new contract reads as follows:

the new hires will recieve medical after the first year and the family recieves medical 3 years  after that.
Plus 6 paid holidays ...

WHERE does that say Michael is not concerned about new hires??

oh and please pass this on to the other 6 people that sat at your table back in 2013.

[Just_Right]

OH I almost forgot...today there was a conversation in the drivers room about the pension..

It is in the GREEN  89 percent PLUS!!!!!..

another lie spoken from people who want to take the Union down ...

[John Eadicicco]

11 years to top pay... I don't think you would have taken this job on those terms... I know I would not and dozens of drivers at the safety meeting this morning all agreed.....I would have taken less of a raise to give new hires a better starting salary and them to be able to get the holidays that we receive. A good incentive to take this job and KEEP the pension system fluid!

[Buzz]

I have serious concerns about the future of the pension system as this contract is NOT kind to new hires. I had a conversation with Michael right after the strike 6 years ago and brought up the point of new hires NOT getting a fair starting wage and benefits. I was at a table of 6 other Pioneer drivers and Michaels response was "I don't give a S..t about the unborn" We were all taken aback at his response... We (the six of us) all agreed that the future of the industry under this belief was in deep trouble. And looking at this contract reflects that opinion!!!! God help us!

I am sure that is not Michael's belief. It's possible that, coming off the strike, Michael was trying to salvage what he could for current employees and the unborn were not the priority at the time.

Since then things have changed and a LOT of effort was put into gaining increases for those yet to be hired. They now will get step raises, which the people hired since 2013 didn't have, They will also get holidays, commensurate with years of service ... which 2013 to now people didn't have. And jury duty. And bereavement. And Christmas and Easter adjustments.

And Michael and all the negotiators tried RELENTLESSLY to do even better for them ... tried to get more money ... tried to reduce number of years to top pay ... but the owners weren't having any of it. It's as if they just don't care how many drivers they're short. I guess it will have to get worse before they make it better for newbies. But it's not for a lack of Michael's efforts.

You're to Michael as Trump haters are to him. No matter what he does, it's no good. If Michael found a cure for cancer you'd say, "Yeah, but what did he do for people with explosive diarrhea?"

[Buzz]

11 years to top pay... I don't think you would have taken this job on those terms... I know I would not and dozens of drivers at the safety meeting this morning all agreed.....I would have taken less of a raise to give new hires a better starting salary and them to be able to get the holidays that we receive. A good incentive to take this job and KEEP the pension system fluid!

Yikes! I find myself in the precarious position of agreeing with you twice in the same thread!

Of course 12 years to top pay is ridiculous. 1181 tried DESPERATELY to get that reduced to at least 8 years. The greedy bastards just wouldn't budge an inch. They'll learn the hard way that they have to do better if they really want more drivers. As it is, I don't think all the ads they place in the world is going to bring manpower up to what it should be ... we'll see.

And I also would have taken less of a raise to see new hires do better. I don't think $20 to start is so bad, but the steps to top pay have to be more per step and fewer years to top pay if they're really serious about hiring more drivers.

[Buzz]

OH I almost forgot...today there was a conversation in the drivers room about the pension..

It is in the GREEN  89 percent PLUS!!!!!..

Yes, as I mentioned yesterday in a post above, this is true. From what I read online, 80% is considered "sound." We're well above that. The sky is not falling.

[PROUD MEMBER]

I personally would have also been content with less money and a faster step increase for new hires. As far as other senior guys saying the same, unfortunately I feel that's the only thing that they are doing ... "saying" ... because if that truly meant it, there would have been a lot more NO votes. John you say that dozens of senior drivers said that, yet there was only 2 dozen NO votes out of the entire property. I also agree that years ago many of us would not have taken this job on those terms but unfortunately today's economy is difficult & different and I wouldn't be surprised at all at how many people today might say "Hey, this ain't a bad deal." Let's not fool ourselves,  now a days kids go to college (some of which that cost 50K p/year & more) and when they graduate CANNOT find a job. And it's not only a handful it's practically the norm. With regards to the pension even if we were flush with Members I'd still worry but fortunately for now it's in good shape. The numbers don't lie. Hopefully as bad as this new step wage MAY look, at least it's better than the last contract with no step wage at all. Only time will tell. I've been an 1181 Member for 16 years. To the newer Members I'm a Senior man. To the Members that have been around longer than I, I'm still a baby. What I can say in those 16 years things have changed drastically. Some blame it on Bloomberg, some blame it on the EPP, some blame it on today's economy, some blame it on greedy owners. Most blame it on Michael which is human nature. We always blame it on the guy on top. And I'm sure he understands and accepts that, it comes with the territory. Some may say he and the current Board don't care but think about it, of course they care. And believe me I am not blowing smoke up their ass. If I disagree with them I'd be one of the first people to tell them to their faces. Which I have done on a few occasions. If I believe their efforts should be rewarded I congratulate them. Getting back to them caring. They are Members just like us. No matter how much money they make, they want to make more. They want a solvent pension for themselves just like us. They need health coverage (especially good coverage at a reasonable price) just like us.  So for anyone to say they don't care in my opinion that is ridiculous. To sum it up. It's time to move on. We have a new contract and there's nothing more to discuss about it.

With regards to moving on obviously the next big thing will be the upcoming election. In May we will find out for sure who will be running and in June WE WILL elect a President & Board. I just want to say before the negativity (which I hate and hope doesn't happen) starts, let's all of us keep this LOCAL in mind and put personal thoughts aside. There are those who think Michael and his Board have done a terrible job over the past so many years and that others could have done better. That's silly thinking. None of us know exactly what they were up against and what goes on in the day to day operations of this Local. And some of us think this Board has done a good job. When Sal & his Board were in I believe that most of us think that they did a good job and we didn't hear much complaining but we don't know maybe others could have done a better job. All I can say if you truly care ... Go to the Nomination meeting and talk to & listen to ALL THE CANDIDATES even if you already have your mind made up. When they come to your campaigning, don't just give them the cold shoulder listen to what they have to say. You never know something or someone may make you think differently. And after the election whether  Michael & the Current Board are re-elected or a entire New Slate takes over they will be Our Elected Representatives and I will stand with them.

Stay United not Divided
God Bless 1181 Members & their families

[Buzz]

I personally would have also been content with less money and a faster step increase for new hires. As far as other senior guys saying the same, unfortunately I feel that's the only thing that they are doing ... "saying" ... because if that truly meant it, there would have been a lot more NO votes.

So how would more "No" votes have helped new hires? A majority of "No" votes would mean the contract was rejected.

Then what? One of two things. (1) Go on strike. (2) Have the owners impose a contract on us ... which CERTAINLY would have been much worse for us and new hires ... and then go on strike.

There IS NO SUCH THING as going "back to the table." This was their best and FINAL offer. Any attempt to renegotiate would have yielded the same ... an imposed contract. THEY WERE NOT GOING BACK TO THE TABLE!

Fortunately an overwhelming majority of members realized this and voted "Yes." I told Ernie DURING negotiations that I thought most senior people would be satisfied with smaller raises if it meant more for new hires and it WAS PITCHED to the owners. For reasons nobody can understand they were just not going to do any better for the unborn. To repeat Ernie's words on this particular issue, "They just don't give a fuck!" It defies logic, but that was their unrelenting position.

1181 negotiated for many months walking on eggs trying to get the best they possibly could for ALL and avoid having a contract imposed upon us and ultimately, a strike

So, I think implying that guys who agreed with you were being disingenuous because they didn't vote "No" is very unfair.

[Buzz]

As a side note, I'll tell you this: If you think the possibility of a strike worried the owners, think again.

Example:

For the longest time we were going to get only $300 for a ratification bonus. As negotiations dragged on and more time passed, Michael tried to get it raised to $400. Not only did the owners refuse, but one of them, (namely Joe Curcio), literally DARED Michael to call a strike saying, "If you want to go on strike for a hundred dollars, GO AHEAD!"

This was the case right up to a few days before signing. I don't know how, in the final hours of negotiations, Michael was able to get the owners to agree, not to $400, but $500! He succeeded in doing what was, for all intents and purposes, the  seemingly impossible.

[PROUD MEMBER]

Buzz if ur talking to me with regards to the NO votes helping the new hires, you misunderstood my comment. I voted yes. I was implying that if dozens of Senior Members at Pioneer SI truly believed that 11 years to top pay is only hurting our Local that there would have been more NO votes than 26. I can't speak for John but knowing him I'm sure he means what he says and if he voted I'd bet he voted NO. As far as other Senior Members who may have said and agreed with John I seriously doubt if half of them voted NO. The numbers don't lie!

[Buzz]

Oh, okay, PROUD MEMBER, I see where you're coming from now.

As far as John voting, he stood up at the meeting and said he "didn't have time."

[John Eadicicco]

Buzz I didn't have time because I finish my AM run at Hebrew Academy at 8:25 then had to head over to Refresher course... Why didn't they let us vote at Sharrotts? So report this any way you want. This contract sucks as far as hiring new people... so keep up the propaganda with Michael being a hero for these negotiations....This contract is the nail in the coffin for the future of our Local! They will be knocking down the door at AK to get a job!!!!!!!!!!

[Buzz]

John, I assume you came back to Arthur Kill for the shuttle for the class. It would literally have taken one minute to go inside and vote ... if you really wanted to. You could have taken the later shuttle if necessary. If you wanted to abstain, that's fine. You don't have to make excuses, nor do you owe anyone an explanation.

I have stated several times that I, (and many others), agree with you that this CBA, "sucks as far as hiring new people."  I don't know how to make it any more clear.

But you insist on making Michael the villain here when all the blame is on the owners. Do you honestly think that Michael didn't want much better for new hires? He could have dug in his heels and refused to accept their final figures.  Right?

He knew that would not work out favorably with owners who had walked out on 11 meetings during negotiations. He knew that to remain inflexible would have resulted in them IMPOSING a contract ... which certainly would have been worse, not only for new guys but everybody else as well ... and ultimately result in a strike.

He assessed that the majority of the membership would not want to be put out on the street over this issue ... and he was proven correct by our acceptance vote of 92% voting "Yes" for ratification.

Are you in the 8% who would have been in favor of striking? Fortunately, Michael did what was best for the overall majority of us. You can characterize that as keeping up, "the propaganda with Michael being a hero for these negotiations," if you like.

I characterize it as a skilled negotiator knowing when to say when and a president who knows what the fuck he's doing.

But feel free to keep up the hate.

[Just_Right]

I totally agree Buzz..

Let's face facts here..I along with MANY drivers and attendants feel the contract is right where it's suppose to be ..the end results for the new hires are simple..when this contract is over there will be more negotiations as far as new hires.So stop bellyaching.

If someone is going to hate the union so much then get out! You don't like it leave.OR..make it better for all. But not with lies and hate filled words.
Lead by becoming EDUACTED in contracts and learn how to negotiate with Stubborn Greedy Owners.

I find it funny how some people come from city jobs and try to turn our Union into their way of doing things. When let's face it..if the city job was so great..then why didn't you stay there and finish till you retire.And for the ones that did..good for you.
But don't bad mouth what our Union does for the good of ALL.



Oh and btw John .I met a friend at the General Membership meeting and was told that YOU said you were a former Shop Steward of Pioneer Staten Island.WHEN did that happen??? as long as I been here it didn't. Why you lie? and make up stories.All of Pioneer know you were never Shop Steward.
And you claim to be a delegate of the police dept...can you offer truth  of that?  I heard from a close friend of yours that your disability from Police Dept for the short time you were there that you were delivering mail for the Police dept and fell out of the car!.
And then I heard that  since you were a former Shop Steward at Pioneer SI that you were running for Office in this election according to drivers at Pioneer.
Can we get any proof of this. OH and can you discredit the rumor that you were fired for stealing from your bartenders job from the bowling alley?
And there is always the rumor that your pension is at risk and you are leaving in June. So why even stir all this shit? And hating the Union?

[John Eadicicco]

Just Right your entire post is comical.... But like I have stated in the past.... cowards hide behind the keyboard..... Just saying As for your post NOT one statement is accurate and for you Barry I didn't take the shuttle to the meeting so keep slinging you BS after you get the OK from the higher ups to respond to me!

[Chris_vitucci]

Just right first let me say that it was an absolute pleasure walking across that bridge with you and Joseph back in 2013 and am glad it's a friendship I still maintain today. As for my friend John E I gotta tell you man I think your more full of shit on this website then you are on Facebook. I spoke to Michael awhile ago about your " 6 person round table meeting" and he said what we all know already 💩. The. There's the "talk" you had with Neil awhile back and those facts were also found to be 💩. You see John research is my friend now let me guess your gonna call me a douche bag? Or my personal favorite a wet behind the ears cordiello schill I believe is what you called me but in truth I just pay attention to everything and if I said it before I'll say it again your wrong 99.99% of the time. And the mere fact that you didn't vote on the contract or attend the union meeting and you wanna be the leader of our union? Seriously ? Where's the leadership there? You don't know the first thing about negotiations! You can't negotiate out of bed in the morning never mind a contract for the union

[Buzz]

... and for you Barry I didn't take the shuttle to the meeting ...

OK ... but you could have if you wanted to vote ... or before your a.m. run.

... so keep slinging you BS after you get the OK from the higher ups to respond to me!

Huh? I need permission? Who knew?!!