Voting "No" to "Take a Stand?"

Buzz · November 20, 2013, 03:42:47 PM

There's no question that NOBODY "likes" this contract ... some more so than others. I've heard people say they're going to vote NO to "take a stand" for themselves. If that's you, you might as well shoot yourself in the foot right now.

First of all, NO MARKS other than your choice are allowed on the ballots. So, you cannot sign your name and NOBODY will know of your valiant gesture to "take a stand." Ballots with any other marks on them will NOT be counted.

The contract is not a good one, we know that. But the ballot does not ask if you like it. It does not ask if you like the company. It does not ask if you like the union. It does not ask if you like Obamacare. It only asks you to Approve the contract or vote NO, and will indicate that voting against it is AUTHORIZATION TO STRIKE.

Whether the contract is ratified or not, we are getting THIS or a LESSER contract, and you know we're not going on strike. The difference is if it's approved, we get our back money in 2 or 3 weeks. If we reject it, we get the contract anyway and will have to wait a couple of years for our money.

So if you're thinking of voting NO to show your displeasure, be sure you understand you're voting "NO - I don't want my back pay now."

It sucks, but that IS the reality, and that IS the choice.

sbdriver1 · November 20, 2013, 04:01:02 PM

Buzz, at AE we are getting a worse contract then you guys with no vacation pay(as far as I know) 7.5 percent taken out of our pay again. After being there for 29 years I have no choice but to vote yes because there is no other choice ( I DO NOT WANT TO STRIKE). I hope the hardliners there think hard before they vote. Also if we vote no the company is threatening to go out of business.

Goose623 · November 20, 2013, 04:28:09 PM

Have to agree with buzz.. Let's suck it up for a year and a half.. Hopefully the new mayor, public advocate and city council will do the right thing.. Then we stick it to him next contract.. Also buzz what is the most favored nation clause???

1union · November 20, 2013, 04:56:18 PM

As. Much as it kills me I think we should except it and re group. We have a year to learn from our mistakes and never forget what management put us through . I respect all opinions and hope we survive. Best of luck to all

Buzz · November 20, 2013, 04:57:50 PM

Quote from: sbdriver1 on November 20, 2013, 04:01:02 PM
Buzz, at AE we are getting a worse contract then you guys with no vacation pay(as far as I know) 7.5 percent taken out of our pay again. After being there for 29 years I have no choice but to vote yes because there is no other choice ( I DO NOT WANT TO STRIKE). I hope the hardliners there think hard before they vote. Also if we vote no the company is threatening to go out of business.

Yes, I understand you are getting basically the same contract that was imposed on us in April. Worse, correct me if I'm wrong, you're not even getting your back pay if you pass the contract, are you?

But, you're making the right decision to approve it. A job with a bad contract is better than no job at all. Good luck to you and everyone there. I'm sorry for your predicament.

Buzz · November 20, 2013, 05:02:25 PM

Quote from: Goose623 on November 20, 2013, 04:28:09 PM
Have to agree with buzz.. Let's suck it up for a year and a half.. Hopefully the new mayor, public advocate and city council will do the right thing.. Then we stick it to him next contract.. Also buzz what is the most favored nation clause???

The Most Favored Nation clause held that if 1181 gave one company a contract that was more favorable than others, than the other companies were able to renegotiate their contract to the terms of the more favorable one. This prevented 1181 from giving any company a better deal than another. It worked when all companies were bound by the EPP and and all the companies in the city were contracted with as one. That is no longer the case and 1181 has to negotiate individual company contracts to stay in existence.

Buzz · November 20, 2013, 05:03:34 PM

Quote from: Goose623 on November 20, 2013, 04:28:09 PM
Have to agree with buzz.. Let's suck it up for a year and a half.. Hopefully the new mayor, public advocate and city council will do the right thing.. Then we stick it to him next contract.. Also buzz what is the most favored nation clause???

Yes, we'd better hope that happens, otherwise, in 2015, we might all be making $14 an hour.

Buzz · November 20, 2013, 05:05:46 PM

Quote from: 1union on November 20, 2013, 04:56:18 PM
As. Much as it kills me I think we should except it and re group. We have a year to learn from our mistakes and never forget what management put us through . I respect all opinions and hope we survive. Best of luck to all

Ahhh ... finally I can agree with you! We can survive with this contract for now ... let's just hope we can survive in 2015.

sbdriver1 · November 20, 2013, 05:20:05 PM

Quote from: Buzz on November 20, 2013, 04:57:50 PM
Quote from: sbdriver1 on November 20, 2013, 04:01:02 PM
Buzz, at AE we are getting a worse contract then you guys with no vacation pay(as far as I know) 7.5 percent taken out of our pay again. After being there for 29 years I have no choice but to vote yes because there is no other choice ( I DO NOT WANT TO STRIKE). I hope the hardliners there think hard before they vote. Also if we vote no the company is threatening to go out of business.

Yes, I understand you are getting basically the same contract that was imposed on us in April. Worse, correct me if I'm wrong, you're not even getting your back pay if you pass the contract, are you?

But, you're making the right decision to approve it. A job with a bad contract is better than no job at all. Good luck to you and everyone there. I'm sorry for your predicament.

I really doubt we are getting any back pay or vacation pay due to the bankruptcy I hope someone starts a class action lawsuit against AE so we can get something back.

Stugots · November 20, 2013, 10:43:43 PM

Just remember that once you give something away, you never get it back. EPP or no EPP. Why no mediator. 2015 they'll shove another final offer contract in our face.

Buzz · November 20, 2013, 11:03:12 PM

Quote from: Stugots on November 20, 2013, 10:43:43 PM
Just remember that once you give something away, you never get it back. EPP or no EPP. Why no mediator. 2015 they'll shove another final offer contract in our face.

Mediator? This is private industry, not municipal unions. You're right, we'll probably never get it back, but some people will never get their jobs back.

Manwithabus · November 21, 2013, 01:36:23 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, let's think about what Buzz is saying. "Taking a stand" is a huge mistake. Vote YES, let's accept it like mature adults, even though it's not what we want, and move forward. It's the only way. To the driver at AE, I feel for you, as do most of us. Good luck to you.

PROUD MEMBER · November 21, 2013, 02:07:00 AM

Two things. First off what's all the talk about a SECRET BALLOT. Everyone has the own opinion & right to vote whatever they believe will be best for them and their families now and in the future. If a Union Brother or Sister doesn't respect that then they shouldn't be in a Union. Having said that I personally although obviously reluctantly will vote YES. If we are being told that there WILL NOT be any more negotiations, that this proposal or worse will be IMPOSED on us anyway and we WILL PROBABLY NOT get our Retro for 2 YEARS as compared to 2 WEEKS for those of you who plan to vote NO please explain your reasoning.

Buzz · November 21, 2013, 03:17:47 AM

Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on November 21, 2013, 02:07:00 AM
Having said that I personally although obviously reluctantly will vote YES.

Probably everybody voting YES will do so reluctantly. You're not alone.

Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on November 21, 2013, 02:07:00 AM
If we are being told that there WILL NOT be any more negotiations, that this proposal or worse will be IMPOSED on us anyway and we WILL PROBABLY NOT get our Retro for 2 YEARS as compared to 2 WEEKS ...

That's it in a nutsack.