Friday's Meeting: Nada

[Buzz]

Today's negotiations were not successful. More meetings scheduled for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Also, there are fliers in the drivers room to give to parents, NOT students.

[The above as per Anthony]

[mirrorcheck]

That's not a good thing . So did they make progress or left the meeting right where it started ?

[Golfnut]

How about no extra work! Do the run you picked and nothing else ! Let the Fines pile up 70 runs that won't be covered ! Figure each run is 4 schools per day which is 280 runs per day 1400 runs per week getting Violations! The amount of fines would be  staggering! That would make the owners negotiate quicker .If all the runs are being covered what would the owners care ? They aren't losing anything. No Our "Job action" is not having a pick and not using our Via Phones ! Big friggen Deal ! What a joke !

[Buzz]

Golfnut ... yes, it would be great if that could happen. But you have guys here making 80 and 120 hours a week. There is now way in hell they would give that up. Human nature being what it is, it just ain't happening.

[Buzz]

That's not a good thing . So did they make progress or left the meeting right where it started ?

I don't want to put words in his mouth, so Anthony just said it wasn't "successful."

[Buzz]

That's not a good thing . So did they make progress or left the meeting right where it started ?

I don't want to put words in his mouth, so Anthony just said it wasn't "successful."

I should add ... by virtue of the fact that 3 more meetings are scheduled means they haven't issued a "last and final offer" ... which is a good thing. I'm thinking they're making at least some progress and that they're trying to avoid a strike. Just my opinion.

[mirrorcheck]

You know what Buzz ? Even myself doing extra work I would drop that in  A heartbeat . He knows this and knows we are not truly United therefore worst case and what should be avoided is a strike . IF you don't do all the things to avoid the strike like stop extra work then you will get the strike . It's just how it goes . A nic here a nic there before you know it your bleeding to death .

[Buzz]

@mirrorcheck -- I hear you and agree, but most people don't think like that. Everybody is out for themselves. Most guys aren't going to give up 2-3-$4,000 a week, even if it's for the greater good.

[Hammer2161]

Unfortunately 1181 allowed them to divide us as individuals with the multitude of different contracts depending on when you were hired and as companies under the 1181 banner because all contracts are not the same from company to company. The owners are well aware that 1181 is not very strong and even though a strike vote was approved unanimously they are very reluctant to strike.
But the reality is as long as we the workers continue to cover the work that is not assigned to anyone we are further helping the owners to get richer.
If our greed as individuals over shadows the obvious problems we are facing to get a fair contract going forward then all our efforts are doomed.
We need to hurt the owners in their POCKETS that is the only language I think they understand.
Also we as a union need to address the fact that the 700 or so drivers we are short throughout the industry is also money not going into our pension or health fund. And that may be a bigger problem than we realize going forward.

[Buzz]

@Hammer2161 - What you say is very true. There should be one contract ... certainly within the company ... as well as among all companies doing NYC DOE work. (There are 1181 companies outside of NYC that do work for districts that do not have NYC's exorbitant budget and cannot compete with our contract.)

Yes, covering work is further dividing us. Unfortunately personal greed is just as acute as that of the owners.

And yes, our retirement fund is missing way too many contributions.

Of course the union is reluctant to strike, rightfully so. But no more reluctant than the owners are for a strike. (Evidenced by agreeing to 3 more meetings ... if not more.)

[PROUD MEMBER]

If we Strike or don't Strike let's be realistic, there is no way the contractors are going to give us what is being asked for. It's simple logic, why would they give us what we ourselves have ratified and given to them over the past three contracts. It's not just the Contractors but both sides that have to bend. My opinion, give the senior members a decent raise and leave everything else status quo and get the "new hires" as much as possible. I also believe if we Strike it will be much longer than the last one and it will end up the same with us on the losing end.

[Hammer2161]

By no means am I encouraging or pushing for a strike simply because I think we can all agree that neither side truly wins when a strike happens.
I do agree with Proud Member that if we do choose to strike it potentially will be for a substantial amount of time. But on the other side I do not feel that the owners are taking us very seriously. I wish I was wrong but it doesn't seem we are any closer to a new contract now than we were in June.
Let's hope we get this resolved by Wednesday so that we can potentially avoid a strike.

[PROUD MEMBER]

I disagree that they are not taking us very serious. Just that fact that there are four consecutive days of negotiations scheduled shows they are taking us very serious. That's more sit downs than they've probably had in the last 8 months.

[Buzz]

If we Strike or don't Strike let's be realistic, there is no way the contractors are going to give us what is being asked for. It's simple logic, why would they give us what we ourselves have ratified and given to them over the past three contracts.

But who ratified the last 3 contracts? Guys with considerable time on the job. We used to be the majority. The "demographics" have changed this time around. There are more drivers hired since 2013 than legacy drivers now. They are the ones who will have the last say if the negotiations produce an MOA. If it's not equal to, or pretty damn close to, what senior drivers get, I wouldn't blame them for putting us on the street. While we may be satisfied with our lot, they've been getting screwed for 10 years and would be justified turning down another shitty contract.

[Buzz]

By no means am I encouraging or pushing for a strike simply because I think we can all agree that neither side truly wins when a strike happens.

Oh I didn't take your comments as pushing for a strike. I understood your point. And you're right ... both sides lose in a strike. That's why I say, even when you win, you lose.

[PROUD MEMBER]

Buzz I understand ur point but you only quote half of my comment.
I know the demographic has changed and as you can see in my entire comment for the most part I say don't worry about the Senior Members and "get the "new hires" as much as possible."

[Buzz]

I understand. I was referring to your statement, "why would they give us what we ourselves have ratified and given to them over the past three contracts."

Just pointing out that the guys who passed those contracts are no longer the ones in control.

[sbdriver1]

This is what I believe is going to happen. At the last possible moment an agreement will be made,and the union leaders will go to the members and say "this is the best we  can do and the contract should be signed"

[Buzz]

@sbdriver1 - Yep that's the way it usually happens, which I don't understand. For months you hear, "They don't want to give us anything" or "They're not bargaining in good faith" then all of a sudden *POOF* we have an MOA.

You mean to tell me they couldn't agree on ANYTHING all along then all of a sudden it all came together in one last meeting? I don't believe it and it's always bugged me why they will not keep us apprised of any progress, no matter how little.

But, once the coalition has given their best and final offer, the union has no choice but to present it to us. They CANNOT tell you to vote for it. That is your choice, so long as you understand it's either ratify the contract or go on strike. That is the ONLY alternative. There is NO going back to the table. Ratify or strike ... the choice is yours and yours alone.

[PROUD MEMBER]

R u sure they're no longer in charge?!?!?

[PROUD MEMBER]

I don't know if I understand what ur saying or if I don't understand what the President can do or not do.
My understanding and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have any voice anymore. We already gave the Reps the authority to Strike, so if they are offered a "Best and Final Offer" and don't agree with it I don't think they will ask us if we like it or not. I believe that they will just tell us that we're going out.

[Buzz]

You may be right ... I'll check on that.

[04012013]

Back in 2013 we were "convinced" by our shop steward / union that this was it and we should take it. It was terrible advice then, and we are paying for it now. All of our future compensation and benefits (retired members) will eventually have to be reduced because the shortage of members contributing over the last 10 years. In simpler terms, Pensions are in jeopardy!!!

As for the extra work, drivers will not stop doing it until the union tells us all not to do it. And some will still do it.

[Buzz]

Back in 2013 we were "convinced" by our shop steward / union that this was it and we should take it. It was terrible advice then, and we are paying for it now.

We had just come off a ridiculous strike. The only other alternative would have been to go on strike again. Obviously there were not enough people willing to do that or they would have voted against the contract.

The problem was we should never have ended the strike without a new contract in place.  I voiced that concern to our then vice-president and the response was, "We'll cross that bridge when we come  to it."

Wrong response.

[PROUD MEMBER]

And back in 2013 when we went on Strike it was ALL 1181 school bus drivers and matrons, that before the Strike were all working under one contract. If we go out now it will only be those of us whose contract expired in June.
Unfortunately not a good thing for us.

[Slowbus]

Nada de nada esta union es un órgano de reproducción femenino 

[Buzz]

Nada de nada esta union es un órgano de reproducción femenino 

Como dije antes, es obvio que nunca has pasado por una huelga.