Be on the outlook come this payday. Apparently these new run coverage sheets are not only for the office's internal records but a way for Neil and his CFO to distinguish how to fuck us out of the hours we're accustomed to getting paid for coverage. That is why on the new sheets there is no where to put down the amount of hours and the reason why Anthony (Shop Steward) said to write the amount of hours down on the sheets anyway. This is what I've heard and if true then we have to take a stand and all of us stick together and do whatever we need to do. As always don't take my word and ask Anthony.
I hope I'm wrong but come Friday we'll see.
Thank you for another post on this topic being I accidentally deleted your previous post, sorry.
This is something we need to be aware of and prepared to insist our union leaders take action. The company should be thankful runs are getting covered and not be nickle and dime-ing us. Guess they're not saving enough not having to make pension and benefits contributions on driver-less runs.
Thanks for the heads-up!!
So, apparently the reason they changed the run coverage pay forms without the driver filling in the number of hours is because they had the dastardly intention of paying only 1 hour for each school covered ... meaning only 1/2 or in some cases 1/4 of what we have been paid.
Coincidentally or not, our delegates and union president, Tomas Fret, were on the property early this morning. It was certainly a show that the union would tolerate no fuckery when it came to our coverage pay.
Our most recent contract MOA stipulates exactly how drivers' run coverage will be paid. Delegate John Cleary told me that if even one person's pay comes up short this Friday, the company will be taken to arbitration ... no ifs, ands or buts.
The union will certainly prevail because it's written in black and white ...
2023 MOA.jpg
I might add, this is the first time in many years that I can recall seeing the union president on the property other than at election time. Thank you, Tomas!
"fuckery"
Hopefully then we'll go back to the old coverage papers so we know what we're getting for sure and not be in suspense about it
Quote from: Safety First on September 10, 2024, 11:12:48 AMHopefully then we'll go back to the old coverage papers so we know what we're getting for sure and not be in suspense about it
Agreed. I heard a number of the new sheets were returned for not being filled out properly. It's like they just look for ways to make an easy thing harder. smh
Take my word for it they'll never go back to the old run coverage sheets
Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on September 10, 2024, 07:51:03 PMTake my word for it they'll never go back to the old run coverage sheets
I believe you. I'm hearing that this isn't completely settled and that they might be finding loopholes in the contract in certain cases ... like when a driver doesn't do his own run, gets paid for it and also get paid for covering an entirely different run. The grapevine has it that they only want to pay half for the covered run. This is just what I'm hearing, don't know details. I think we're in for a fight.
Stay tuned!
The grapevine also has it that the Union agrees with said loopholes. So we're probably in for a war, not just a fight!
Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on September 11, 2024, 09:58:40 AMThe grapevine also has it that the Union agrees with said loopholes. So we're probably in for a war, not just a fight!
Well, if the union can show us in black and white in the contract where it supports the company's stance, that's one thing. However, if it's just a matter of interpretation and the union is taking the company's side, that's quite another thing. We'll see.
Bottom line is it sounds like once again our union doesn't have our backs....
Apparently now the Union AGAIN has made a 180 and no longer agrees with said loopholes.
Good for us but simply unbelievable. This is an MOA (contract) that the Union and its attorneys wrote, rewrote, negotiated for probable a year or more than finalized and agreed upon and signed into effect than 14 months later tell us that they 100% stand by it then a day later tell us they don't quite understand the meaning of the wording in one paragraph of it than the next day tell us they do understand it!
What they should understand is when an owner is playing with the livelihood of its Members and their Families that there are many ways to legally fight fire with fire before even going to Arbitration. The first way is to stop the bullshit and keep their Members in stress. Come to the property and hold a meeting (like a Trump Rally) instead of this hearsay nonsense and wait and see shit. This is something that they knew was coming for weeks. And immediately after that meeting walk into the owner's office and tell him the way it is before we're shorted in the next paycheck. Obviously it's not a simple matter but all you have to do is threaten his pocket the way he's threatening ours. And if they don't know how to than I will gladly help. None of us want to get shorted money NOW and have to be in stress mentally and financially for months or even longer for an Arbitration Hearing to get paid LATER!!!
All I can say is, you would have made one hell of a delegate. Really.
I waited a few days to comment . As usual something happens owner takes an action . The source of the new time sheets wasn't addressed from its source . A simple letter telling your workers briefly what's happening and why makes a world of difference . Business 101 . Do better !! . Hanging out in the cave isn't businesslike . All that did is create a panic , confusion and stress for drivers that were already paid for years and up to and including a full year under new agreement .
While as a driver I do run coverage and like the extra money . I'm under no illusion that great profit is made at our expense while saving in various expenses in the line item column . You don't "lose money for years , sign a new deal not address what hurts you , continue to pay for another year and all of a sudden BAM 💥 " .
I don't believe out of nowhere it was figured out how to hold onto money that was being "Lost " . Tell that to anyone you want . Cool story bro !
Factually speaking . These buses don't run themselves . This isn't the first money that has been held . Also again not the first time I have to keep an accounting of hours , take pictures and track what's paid and what isn't . Am I working for Fly By Night Airways or Pioneer ? "The leader in the Transportation Business " or so they say !!!
Finally and lastly . The whole shortage was created by bad contracts emanating from the strike. That's just a fact . Used to be a waiting list to get in and happy faces . Now it's how many quit this week , who left a bus where to pick up by a train station or so on . Big money was made on these deals . I warned the delegates when they came down to explain the last contract . Sure as shit it was proven again why the "Scorpion and the Frog " story is still relevant . :bomb:
Well said mirrorcheck👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
We choice to work for Pioneer and be in Local 1181. No one is forcing us to work here.
My opinion is Neil as greedy as he may or not be, he is in business to make as much money as possible and us workers also want to make as much money as possible.
Regardless of past practice or what someone at Pioneer may have told us, we the Union Members and Neil the owner agreed to a Contract. We have Union Representatives that "WE ELECTED" to negotiate and fight for us. In the past week I personally have read the Contract and MOAs from 2006 to present (numerous times). I have also talked and texted with our Shop Stewards and Delegate numerous times. And contrary to what some of may believe or hear they are doing whatever they can under the Contract. I'm sure that sometime this week we will have all the answers we need. Unfortunately some of "might" not like what we hear. Just remember what I said at the top.
We Choice to Work Here
God Bless 1181 Members & their Families
@mirrorcheck ... you make a lot of great points but I have to admit, I had to google the Scorpion and the Frog story. ;D ;D ;D
Consider this. He makes this guy, Graham, Chief Financial Officer. If this guy can't save Neil at least as much as his yearly salary, why does Neil need him? He's trying to justify his job.
And the rich get richer.
@PROUD MEMBER ... I admire your gallant take on this and agree. Can't really blame the guy for wanting to reclaim hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but maybe we shouldn't be too quick to discount the possibility of using "Past Practice" as a basis for arbitration.
Found this piece very interesting ... although a different union, the principle is the same ... https://www.ueunion.org/stwd_pastprac.html
@Buzz sorry for the old story reference but it does apply here in this story . Strongly agree about justifying a position. Personally I don't see how this could have been paid out a year and this great cost that was hurting was just realized now . Call me crazy .
@Proud Member no we aren't forced to work here . Yes we are given a job and responsibilities to do . Bottom line is whether we agree or disagree a note on what to expect in run coverage pay should have been given . Reasons why that's for the Union to battle him over . Shouldn't be that a Teenager sticking shelves in a Deli at minimum wage knows more about his pay and what to expect then us .
Quote from: mirrorcheck on September 16, 2024, 12:37:04 PM@Buzz sorry for the old story reference but it does apply here in this story .
Don't apologize for it. It was interesting to learn and probably an accurate analogy.
Apparently according to OUR UNION the NEW rate or hourly pay (however the wording) that Pioneer is paying us is correct. Apparently there is not going to be any arbitration.
It also appears that there is not going to be an emergency meeting with us at Pioneer as a whole to discuss this in detail. I personally have been in touch with our Shop Steward and Delegate numerous times over the past two weeks asking questions and giving suggestions to no avail. Anthony clearly told me that if any or all of us have any questions to go knock on his door. I personally think that is the best thing to do. This every day calling, texting or talking to other drivers and asking
HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING
is just played out and getting you nowhere.
I told you in a quick summary what I heard.
As I said I suggest you go ask for yourself.
God Bless Everyone & their Families
There is a General Membership Meeting this coming Tuesday at 7:30pm in Ozone Park. I encourage ALL members from Pioneer to attend. At this time I do not know if the Run Coverage Pay formula will be on the agenda but what I do know is I will get up and address the Executive Board about this matter. Obviously it will help our cause if the Board sees many of Pioneer members in attendance. I'm not talking about 10 or 20 of us, I'm talking about 100 or 200 hundred of us. For the past two weeks we've been complaining about what the ownership has done and about what our Union Reps have not done. This will probably be our last chance to convince our Union to do what needs to be done. If we just sit back and wait believe me this new pay formula for Run Coverage will be with us forever. Us just talking and texting each other and bitching to each other is not going to get us our money. This is the time to make a STAND and let Our Board know that we will not take anything less in our pay than what we've been getting for years. And for those of you that cover work and this new payroll system hasn't affected you YET, believe me down the road it will. And that may be sooner than later. A pick is coming and Run Coverage will change. On top of that even those of you that don't cover work should attend. Besides be Union Brothers & Sisters we are a family here at Pioneer. Think of the drivers that have gotten use to the rate of pay and depend on it to pay their bills and take care of their families. We have to make a strong showing. Today was our first full week pay and it wasn't good for many of us but it was great for the owner. I encourage others to not only come to the meeting but when the time comes to also get up and address the Board in a respectful manner. I personally will not disappoint any of you. I have already spoken to Anthony about getting buses to the Meeting. Please each and everyone of you go into his Office today and Monday and tell him IN PERSON you will attend the meeting and you need the buses.
Curious about something: Everybody is short drivers. How are other companies paying for run coverage? Anybody know somebody working for another company they can ask?
I already asked and from I remember (bc I have do much on my mind) is that with most other companies even if their employees have been affected it's not like Pioneer. Apparently Pioneer has the most open runs to cover. Unfortunately and uncharacteristically of me I didn't pay to much attention. Obviously, I'm concerned with all 1181 members but at this particular moment, I'm concerned with Pioneer members. You can ask Anthony or Scott and they'll give you the exact answer.
Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on September 20, 2024, 10:49:27 AMObviously, I'm concerned with all 1181 members but at this particular moment, I'm concerned with Pioneer members.
I understand but I was thinking if drivers from other companies had the same complaint that the union would be more likely to do something.
Also, it appears that Anthony has heeded your suggestion about buses for the meeting. You get results!!!
Stop covering runs!!!! pretty simple.
union meeting 9 24.jpg
Quote from: Goose623 on September 20, 2024, 07:06:50 PMStop covering runs!!!! pretty simple.
Won't happen...drivers would still cover even if they were getting just 30 minutes over time lol
Greeeeeeeed
Quote from: WhatBusToday on September 20, 2024, 07:35:15 PMQuote from: Goose623 on September 20, 2024, 07:06:50 PMStop covering runs!!!! pretty simple.
Won't happen...drivers would still cover even if they were getting just 30 minutes over time lol
Greeeeeeeed
Quote from: WhatBusToday on September 20, 2024, 07:35:15 PMQuote from: Goose623 on September 20, 2024, 07:06:50 PMStop covering runs!!!! pretty simple.
Won't happen...drivers would still cover even if they were getting just 30 minutes over time lol
Greeeeeeeed
I know that. If everyone stuck together for a week he would have no choice. But won't happen.
Greed may have something to do with it, but it's not that "simple" to stop covering work.
If you stop covering work after just one day, it can be considered insubordination and you could find your job on the line.
If you don't believe me, ask your delegate, ask your shop steward, ask your general manager or just read your contract.
Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on September 20, 2024, 09:41:20 PMGreed may have something to do with it, but it's not that "simple" to stop covering work.
If you stop covering work after just one day, it can be considered insubordination and you could find your job on the line.
If you don't believe me, ask your delegate, ask your shop steward, ask your general manager or just read your contract.
Proud, are you being forced to cover extra work? Or have you been volunteering for years and your lifestyle has become accustomed to the extra money?
The availability of extra work is beneficial to drivers who would like the opportunity to make extra money. However, the distribution of the work by the management and the compensation should be fair for all parties.
I have never been forced, I've been volunteering for years and yes my lifestyle has gotten accustomed to the extra money.
And yes the distribution of work should be fair to all parties.
Is it or isn't it? I couldn't tell you for sure, I don't distribute the work. What I do know for sure is that there is work being covered from the #1 driver in seniority to drivers at the bottom of seniority in the 300s.
Also if you recall when Run Coverage first started it was the Union that stated the extra work would be distributed in seniority order. At that time there was probably around 20 open runs.
Quote from: PROUD MEMBER on September 21, 2024, 12:53:55 AMAlso if you recall when Run Coverage first started it was the Union that stated the extra work would be distributed in seniority order.
As opposed to being based on ethnicity. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: