1181 Drivers Forum

Probably like most of you, this forced contract ... or edict ... has, for the most part, consumed my thoughts for the past week. We've all felt the angst and anger. But mulling it over as much as I have, I've come to the conclusion that this is a contrived move on the part of the contractors. I don't think they expect it to stick ... or ever really intended it to. I don't know why they've adopted this particular strategy ... that's anyone's guess ... but I believe this is only a move toward their end game ... whatever that may be.

There are too many pieces of the puzzle missing to put it all together, too much we don't know to make sense of it, but I really think it's a ruse of some sort. The contract changes are so outrageous, so intentionally egregious, (I believe), that I think they know they cannot and will not stand up to legal muster, and they've known that all along. It is, nonetheless, a very cruel way to go about it, and the end will not justify the means. They are just too damaging and hurtful.

I may be completely wrong ... in which case, yes, I will take some salt on that crow ... or I may just be in denial of the whole thing. But I really think it's not over and I'll postpone final judgement and wait until the smoke clears before I start for calling for Neil's balls on a meat hook.

Just my humble opinion.

Buzz...I completely agree...just hoping common sense prevails...our losses so far are in the thousands between the strike and this "new deal".

Niel is making a very bad call by screwing hard working people who have made his family very rich over the years and he will will regret it dearly when his company goes to shit because of thpe way he treated his employees who will no longer willing to make pioneer the best To bad he chose to follow a fat scumbag rather then do things the way his father did so he could inherit a great company.now his son or daughter will get a has been company with shit employees and drive the company out of business.I will continue to do my job by the book and make my union proud.I will wright up everything obey all speed limit signs .I will not be using my cell phone to call office for anything ,the company is not worth my min ,so I will burn his fuel to go back to see what they want.I will ck my bus for everything and if they give me a spare and ck it(hope it's up to par or I don't use it unless some one in the office orders me to.)Stay behind our union it takes time to fight all the bullshit but if we all stay together fight our fight in court we will win.how dare he pay mechanics and not the rest of us that's just wrong several of us are getting with labor ATtorneys and will also be filing law suit against Pioneer. Stay strong and do not forget  how he has treated his employees during a very difficult time.HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO MADE HIM RICH JUST CARE ABOUT LINING HIS POCKETS!GOD BLESS 1181

Would be interested in joining a lawsuit against this contract...any update in securing a Labor attorney?

Buzz...Why would a business owner take it upon himself to CUT the pay of his workers with a current contract in place and with no change in the amount of what he receives from the DOE?
I have NO IDEA what kind of strategy this is - I think it is obvious that WE WILL WIN a grievance based on these facts. The only thing I can think of is..,he is trying to set the groundwork for "IF or WHEN" he doesn't get the same money from DOE...but why start now?

Quote from: terminator on April 01, 2013, 04:38:17 AM
Buzz...Why would a business owner take it upon himself to CUT the pay of his workers with a current contract in place and with no change in the amount of what he receives from the DOE?
I have NO IDEA what kind of strategy this is - I think it is obvious that WE WILL WIN a grievance based on these facts. The only thing I can think of is..,he is trying to set the groundwork for "IF or WHEN" he doesn't get the same money from DOE...but why start now?

Your "IF or WHEN" scenario is probably the justification in their minds, but only in their minds. From what I've heard, Bloomberg is going to put contracts expiring in 2014 out for bids in June, and those expiring in 2015 in October. This would include Pioneer. (Bloomy is obviously trying to inflict as much damage to us as possible, even beyond his term in office.)

That's fine ... to a point. I can understand them wanting to be able to bid competitively on their own work. We're being cut about 20%. Are they going to cut their profits 20% as well so they can underbid themselves by 40%? I doubt it very much. If we're cut 20% and they lower their bids by 20% (if they lower them at all) then we're bearing the entire decrease, and they sacrifice nothing.

With a company that has an A-1 rating like Pioneer, (thank US very much), it is entirely possible that their contract could just be extended. If so, why the cuts to us? Or, they may have to lower their bid. Fine ... if it is 20% lower, why should overall cuts to us be more than half that (10%)?

If they wanted to be fair (they don't) and remaining competitive is really their true purpose (it isn't), they would do this: Keep everything as it was in our expired contract ... as he SAID he would if we came back to work ... then negotiate a new contract after their bids have been accepted, and decrease us by about HALF of what the percentage decrease in their bid was, effective as of the date of their new contract. (Of course, if their bid was MORE than what they're currently getting, then we should get an INCREASE of about half that percentage.)

This is an over-simplification because I'm sure there are other expenses besides us that can't be cut, but the point is, a FAIR successor contract would be dependent upon and directly proportionate to whatever their bid actually is. I doubt you would see this happen because it is fair.

I'll admit there are probably other factors of which I am not aware, but basically, the REAL answer to your question could probably be summed up in one word:

Greed.

i like the rest of yous am very confussed at this whole situation...yes bloomy fu^ked us more then anyone,but hey lets face it ,he has being doing to to new york since he took office....as far as neil im very dissappointed in him,i have the utmost respect in this company and never thought he would play gatto's games...maybe next  he will bring this great company in and out of bankruptcy like atlantic does,and also he should bring a gun into his doe contract renewal meeting....but also i will be looking at a complete new 1181 slate next election, 1st off we went on a 6 week no win strike,bloomy we all knew would never give in,but the icing on the cake to me was the letter they gave us just before neil gave out his new contract...to me 1181 letter was setting us up for the next letter neil and the other bosses were putting out a few days later... why dont they tell us what companies they looked into there books..this union gave us facts how the bosses are loosing money,,,well we should all bring our  facts to the meeting thursday night..how some of us lost everything to sandy and how every bill and cost of living has gone up...my feeling is they all faied us...from 1181 to the bosses to the media and all last but not least the most crooked of all the politicians...

I feel Neil is doing this because of the pending law suit he has to have the epp taken out.  If that happens he will have his way. If it doesn't happen he will not have his way. But he is trying. The union has lawsuits against the board of ed. and the contractors.  The fight is not up yet.  We have to do things legally.. It is not 1979 anymore.  I feel that the yard people in our yard should not move buses. He will be stuck and the violations alone will hurt him.  Drivers can't get in trouble for this because he has to provide us to get out. September will be the big tell all.

Before we went on our 4 week (not 6) strike, I questioned that if we go out for the EPP, what happens when we get a sh!t contract. The answer was something like crossing that bridge when we come to it.

While we were out on strike, after it became obvious we were going to get no concession from Bloomberg, I thought we should stay out until there was a contract offer we could live with. I was told something like "one battle at a time."

I was told we had to go back to work because some people already crossed the line, and if we stayed out any longer more would have followed. Being the EPP was our only cause, one we could not win, I, like many others, was willing to end the strike.

However, we were 3 weeks away from getting unemployment. If contract negotiations had continued as a prerequisite to ending the strike, and we were offered the contract they're offering us now, I think 100% of the people would have been willing to stay on the picket line. (With the possible exception of the shop.)



But I don't make a 6-figure salary so what the fu#k do I know?

Quote from: driver on April 01, 2013, 03:10:04 PM
I feel that the yard people in our yard should not move buses.

If the yard men don't move buses they won't be yard men and won't get a full day's pay.

Quote from: Buzz on April 01, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
Before we went on our 4 week (not 6) strike, I questioned that if we go out for the EPP, what happens when we get a sh!t contract. The answer was something like crossing that bridge when we come to it.

While we were out on strike, after it became obvious we were going to get no concession from Bloomberg, I thought we should stay out until there was a contract offer we could live with. I was told something like "one battle at a time."

I was told we had to go back to work because some people already crossed the line, and if we stayed out any longer more would have followed. Being the EPP was our only cause, one we could not win, I, like many others, was willing to end the strike.

However, we were 3 weeks away from getting unemployment. If contract negotiations had continued as a prerequisite to ending the strike, and we were offered the contract they're offering us now, I think 100% of the people would have been willing to stay on the picket line. (With the possible exception of the shop.)



But I don't make a 6-figure salary so what the fu#k do I know?

i screwed up with the 6 weeks,i think it was 5 weeks and 6000.00 out of our pocket...

Now as of his 2 year deal we shouldnt be facing any cuts.Like anyone else,let the EPP get resolved,let him bid in that same time,should he face cuts then we can then bargain based on that,a job with some liveable cuts is better then no job. Asking for cuts before he even has bid and going against all the things he doesnt like,while we have to live up to every other obligation is not fair an HE WONT WIN THIS,WRITE THAT DOWN NOW. whatever changes after the EPP,Next Mayor and his Next Bids is all up in the air,that is obvious.
     PS If he can disgruntle Senior drivers to hand in retirement papers right now,without paying a buyout who is better then him. This is a shitty shell game and a ruse,lets focus on exactly why he is delaying,that is the reason we didnt get accrual checks and paid holiday(40 week guarantee) the reason has to do with the delay. Could be he wants an exodus to the door. Whatever it is,its wrong for people that have to pay bills,have families and rebuilding after the bitchass Sandy. Fed up and still disgusted and this whole scenario.

Quote from: mirrorcheck on April 01, 2013, 10:56:33 PM
Could be he wants an exodus to the door.

BINGO! We have a winner!

(In my humble opinion.)

So, when does the Union say that those who have yet to receive them will get the International Checks ?

Quote from: spanishjonny on April 02, 2013, 12:43:35 AM
So, when does the Union say that those who have yet to receive them will get the International Checks ?

Very soon, and to avoid further delay, 1181 is going to pay the people who did not get the international's checks out of our funds, then work out the reimbursement with Washington.

Quote from: yabba on April 01, 2013, 01:12:27 PM
....but also i will be looking at a complete new 1181 slate next election ...

Be careful what you wish for. I know we're all upset right now, but we can't cut off our noses to spite our faces.

A few of years ago there was "a complete new slate" in the credit union. I'm told one year under the new leadership the credit union lost over $300,000 ... and the TREASURER could not even read that amount of money out loud correctly.

A complete new slate on the executive board would, without a doubt, put 1181 in shambles.

Not to beat a dead horse, yabba, but on my calendar, Wed., Jan. 16 to Wed., Feb. 13 is 4 weeks. Think we got paid for 5, though.

Quote from: Buzz on April 02, 2013, 02:12:48 AM

Quote from: yabba on April 01, 2013, 01:12:27 PM
....but also i will be looking at a complete new 1181 slate next election ...

A few of years ago there was "a complete new slate" in the credit union. I'm told one year under the new leadership the credit union lost over $300,000 ... and the TREASURER could not even read that amount of money out loud correctly.

I was there at that Union Hall Meeting and it was a Disgrace that she tried 3 or 4 times to figure out what $337,000 was!!! She just didn't understand figures(amounts).

I spoke with Joe MSG who is on the 1181 Credit Board, and Our Credit Union rating improved to a NCRB #2, which is a very good rating. He said the 1181 Credit Union made a PROFIT of Over $375,000.00 in 2012  :thumbup:

Quote from: Buzz on April 02, 2013, 02:21:10 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, yabba, but on my calendar, Wed., Jan. 16 to Wed., Feb. 13 is 4 weeks. Think we got paid for 5, though.

hey now i went back to work on 2-20-2013   were you a scab buzz...lol..just joking... :snicker: :snicker:

Quote from: yabba on April 02, 2013, 12:22:31 PM
hey now i went back to work on 2-20-2013   were you a scab buzz...lol..just joking... :snicker: :snicker:

OMG ... You're right, it was during Presidents Week ... it was 5 weeks.

Quote from: Buzz on April 02, 2013, 03:22:53 PM

Quote from: yabba on April 02, 2013, 12:22:31 PM
hey now i went back to work on 2-20-2013   were you a scab buzz...lol..just joking... :snicker: :snicker:

OMG ... You're right, it was during Presidents Week ... it was 5 weeks.

your forgiven    :yes: :yes: :yes:

Wow Buzz was wrong.. the world is doomed the FAT LADY IS BELTING ONE OUT...