Well, I guess by now it's no secret that the company is looking to cut pay for covering runs. They want to cut 4 and 8 hours down to 2 to 4 hours ... or better.
According to the contract, I believe it's worded that the company has to pay "actual time" for additional work covered. However, it has become customary over a number of years to be paid 2 hours for covering a school and 4 hours for either an a.m. or p.m. run.
Therefore, people who volunteer to do extra work will asked to do it at a fraction of what they were previously paid. In other words, cut your own throat! If it is voluntary, you can refuse it but if you agree to it you should report the pay reduction to the shop steward.
If you are told to do it and it fits into your run (or before/after your run) you cannot refuse to do it but should also report if you are paid less than the 2 or 4 hours you would normally be paid.
Yeah, every company looks to save money. But I just can't understand punishing the people who cover your ass and make your company work!
Carmine does an absolutely amazing job at getting work covered. (I'm told it's nearly 200 individual school runs a day that have to be covered.) I honestly don't know how he deals with the stress. Why you would want to make it virtually impossible for him to be able to cover all that work is beyond me.
However, we're being told that if the cuts aren't made that the company will turn runs back in to the DOE. How does that make sense? To me this is a completely manufactured crisis. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot ...
Well that's one way to piss off your drivers who carry the company. This isn't going to be pretty and definitely not good with the new contract coming up that needs to be better than what it is. Cheap cheap cheap
Up until , at the top , he understand we are actually after the EXACT same thing that he wants which is money. We are on the same side . We are actual Partners with no ESOP cause those buses don't move if we don't come in. The shortage in drivers is for a real reason . I hope the union drives home this point . There are so many ways we can all benefit and be happy. It can't always one sided .
QuoteUp until , at the top , he understand we are actually after the EXACT same thing that he wants which is money. We are on the same side . We are actual Partners with no ESOP cause those buses don't move if we don't come in. The shortage in drivers is for a real reason . I hope the union drives home this point . There are so many ways we can all benefit and be happy. It can't always one sided .
It's not going to be one sided...it's going to benefit everyone at the top of the food chain and screw people over in the new contract. The only way you solve the new contract issue is put everyone under the same contract so there is no more separation and whom is better than whom. The pay needs to change drastically. As far as the cutting the OT hours that isn't a show of good faith in this who are carrying your company at the moment in shitty weather, extreme bus issues and many other issues us drivers have to deal with by doing multiple runs.
This contract is exactly what the government tries to do. Divide US at every level and puts us against each other . Once it went to individual company and now more with wide negotiation then the next steps was to further divide inside the company with everyone at different levels .
I will say this it was a nice move at least seeing how shitty that medical was abs he gave back some to the lower guys and they can take home
More per week.
QuoteThis contract is exactly what the government tries to do. Divide US at every level and puts us against each other . Once it went to individual company and now more with wide negotiation then the next steps was to further divide inside the company with everyone at different levels .
I will say this it was a nice move at least seeing how shitty that medical was abs he gave back some to the lower guys and they can take home
More per week.
They still gotta do better for the next contract....
Strongly agree
is that even legal? to not pay us what we have coming to us? what we earn? i hope the union can right this wrong. seems like its more of money saver to not pay new drivers benefits and salary and just pay the drivers they have to cover the work. or am i missing something here.
Quoteis that even legal? to not pay us what we have coming to us? what we earn? i hope the union can right this wrong. seems like its more of money saver to not pay new drivers benefits and salary and just pay the drivers they have to cover the work. or am i missing something here.
Well, according to contract they do not have to pay at the rates they are but pay only for the "actual time" it takes to do the other work. However, it has been a "past practice" and the union believes that is the grounds for bringing the company to arbitration.
And yes, of course they save money not paying pension and welfare for another driver, but I guess it's never enough.
Also we know he's not going to give the runs back bcz he'll lose a ridiculous amount of money much more than he's spending to cover the work I guess it's like someone else said it's never enough for the profit margin and we're going to suffer the consequences. Union needs to fight for us arbitration seems like a good idea.
Drivers aren't going to do it for half the pay if that and deny it and then he will be the one that gets fined for runs not getting covered. This day in age he needs to start treating and paying his drivers the way they should be. As I keep saying this is not good going into the new contract. People WILL leave if they don't seeing dinner at the table then crumbs on the floor. The union needs to do right by us
QuoteDrivers aren't going to do it for half the pay if that and deny it
Don't be so sure of that. There are some that would prostitute their mothers for an extra buck.
Lmaooo. Good point but I don't think many that were getting 20-30 hours OT alone aren't going to settle for way less than that. Time for drivers and the union to take a stand. He probably saw like 30-40 drivers now getting OT compared to pre covid where it wasn't that many and now wants to be cheap and thinks by cutting medical in half is the answer? It's not the answer is putting everyone on the same contract and upping the pay
Just don't offer yourself to cover extra work is that simple. So far this year I covered once within my area and let me tell you the stress and aggravation is just not worth it let them hire more drivers and get their act together we shouldn't care if they "loose the run" that's manipulation for drivers to feel bad 😢 I drove for another company for 2 years before coming to pioneer and they had the same manipulative tactics
My situation of doing OT is I would get offered 4 hours(I'd be dumb not to take it) and he would get someone to cover my pm school. There were also times I got offered 2 hours and had to still do my PM school if I got there late or IF it were way out of the way I'd do the 2 hour coverage and he would send someone to my PM. Now same situation but got less pay I think I would straight up say I don't want anymore OT. As stated before this is a company issue not current driver situation. I see a lot of drivers saying no to OT if the pay ain't there. Again not our problem they are short drivers and they want to pay us less for helping the company out? Company is worth millions on paper now isn't the time to be shady about it.
I didn't notice anything posted in the office or I haven't got any email from pioneer saying work coverage would change.
If this is the case (future) of what pioneer wants to do then Fxck Him and Don't cover ANY work! Of course there are WHOAS that will still do it for any amount. I say Fxck them too! We have to Isolate them and let them know they are a Piece of Shit for not standing by their fellow workers and union. We have over 20 drivers now doing 40+ hours ot and I can name each one!
Do you really think that Pioneer would give back runs? He would be losing a lot more money then paying us what he's paying us now. All Pioneer thinks about is money and not his workers who makes him that money. He has showed that in the past (contract). Let him get fined for not covering the work. As I hear there was about 200 schools (runs) that had to be covered on Friday. Give back the work see if it affects my pocket, the answer is NO!
As far as arbitration goes, that is just a ploy by the union to try and satisfy us. It's like can I have a hamburger TODAY and pay you in 6 months maybe, if we win.
I saw Ernie coming out of the dispatch office and people coming out of the union office saying a lot of shit went down today(Friday) and Monday should be fun....
Quote from: WTF on January 23, 2022, 08:41:28 PMI didn't notice anything posted in the office or I haven't got any email from pioneer saying work coverage would change.
If this is the case (future) of what pioneer wants to do then Fxck Him and Don't cover ANY work! Of course there are WHOAS that will still do it for any amount. I say Fxck them too! We have to Isolate them and let them know they are a Piece of Shit for not standing by their fellow workers and union. We have over 20 drivers now doing 40+ hours ot and I can name each one!
Do you really think that Pioneer would give back runs? He would be losing a lot more money then paying us what he's paying us now. All Pioneer thinks about is money and not his workers who makes him that money. He has showed that in the past (contract). Let him get fined for not covering the work. As I hear there was about 200 schools (runs) that had to be covered on Friday. Give back the work see if it affects my pocket, the answer is NO!
As far as arbitration goes, that is just a ploy by the union to try and satisfy us. It's like can I have a hamburger TODAY and pay you in 6 months maybe, if we win.
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Keep your powder dry, folks. I'm hearing the company thought a little harder about their "edict" and decided that keeping it business as usual is in everybody's best interest. We'll find out for sure tomorrow morning.
(The union made it clear that it would challenge every single case of underpayment with arbitration ... but I wouldn't be surprised if some of your comments here helped with reaching a more driver-friendly decision :rolleyes: )
Damn right power to the drivers !
I'm happy for the "business as usual" and hope it stays like that but let's remember who we work for and what his "business as usual" has been over the years.
Bottom line he wants to make as much money as possible just as do we. That's why he owns a business and that's why we go to work. It's not to make the least amount.
Obviously this is a very complicated situation and there's a lot more involved.
At this time I won't even attempt to touch on everything. What I will say is the easiest solution to this is better contracts in order to get more drivers. Something that would not only benefit us and the future of our Union but at the same time in the long run, will benefit Neil because if he isn't careful he will bury his own company!
Typical Neil. We're covering his runs and getting compensated for it, just like he's getting compensated by the City of New York. Not one violation for a missed run, EVER! He can thank Carmine for it, but I'm assuming it goes unnoticed by the ungrateful and greedy owner. Wake up Neil, the majority of employees are dedicated, decent human beings just trying to earn a living. You're nothing like your father.
I will say this Carmine does a great job . That's a tough job to do. I wouldn't want it . Us drivers as usual put up with and have been great professionals throughout . Not defending the owner but it can't be easy running a corporation with all the inflation and regular headaches . Having said all that I just hope he sees us as the working partners to a better contract and more money for us all. Some of us that remain on suffered through a lot ( strikes ) to get to this point . I'm positive with the shortage and the great job we do that it's in our side ....
QuoteTypical Neil. We're covering his runs and getting compensated for it, just like he's getting compensated by the City of New York. Not one violation for a missed run, EVER! He can thank Carmine for it, but I'm assuming it goes unnoticed by the ungrateful and greedy owner. Wake up Neil, the majority of employees are dedicated, decent human beings just trying to earn a living. You're nothing like your father.
Well, his father never had a "CFO" ... Chief Financial Officer. The way I see it, this guy, (won't mention any names but it's like a type of cracker ;D ) gets paid to save Neil money. Let's just say he gets 100K a year. To justify his salary he has to save Neil at least that much, right? Else why the fuck would Neil want him, right?
So, the "overtime" (not really overtime) pay is a soft target. There's a lot of money there. But that's because there are SO MANY runs that have to be covered. It's phenomenal that Carmine is able to do it at all. What this kid does is crucial to this company's operation. They should be kissing his feet instead of crucifying him over money.
The CFO will just have to find some other way to justify his salary.
Buzz given the situation and need for us do you see the next contract getting better for us new hires? If so what do you think will change to get better?
Personally I think top pay needs to be cut in half dramatically from 12 to 6 along with a raise to help us reach that in 6 years. I was originally told the offer was 19 years then 15 then settled on 12.
QuoteBuzz given the situation and need for us do you see the next contract getting better for us new hires? If so what do you think will change to get better?
Obviously a new contract has to be a lot more attractive to prospective drivers but I certainly can't predict what will be.
It is my understanding that guys like you got a bit of a break already with your share of health insurance contributions being reduced to be in line with everyone else. Is that not the case?
Cutting the medical in half is a good show in faith I guess but that's not enough. 45 dollars extra in our pocket for the work we do and DEMANDED of us with these buses besides just being a driver now in todays world isn't going to cut it. That's not even close to what has to be done. Yeah it's a few extra bucks in the pay check but we want top pay cut in half. Who the hell is gonna stay here or come in and wait 12 years for top pay. That needs to be the main vocal point. Top pay from 12 to 6 or 7 years. Cutting the medical to 45 dollars for medical isn't going to cut it. I totally agree the next contract needs to be attractive to in coming drivers BUT also to the drivers that help carry your company now especially during these tough dark times.
I understand what you're saying and agree. But to get that reduction in medical deductions without even a new contract is a good start.
Quote from: Buzz on January 26, 2022, 02:03:18 AMI understand what you're saying and agree. But to get that reduction in medical deductions without even a new contract is a good start.
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That's great news 45 is waaayy more reasonable than 91
QuoteThat's great news 45 is waaayy more reasonable than 91
Let's hope and pray it just doesn't end there because a lot more needs to be done to better that next contract for new hires
It's time for new hires to be brought to the dinner table for appetizers at least....
QuoteQuoteTypical Neil. We're covering his runs and getting compensated for it, just like he's getting compensated by the City of New York. Not one violation for a missed run, EVER! He can thank Carmine for it, but I'm assuming it goes unnoticed by the ungrateful and greedy owner. Wake up Neil, the majority of employees are dedicated, decent human beings just trying to earn a living. You're nothing like your father.
Well, his father never had a "CFO" ... Chief Financial Officer. The way I see it, this guy, (won't mention any names but it's like a type of cracker ;D ) gets paid to save Neil money. Let's just say he gets 100K a year. To justify his salary he has to save Neil at least that much, right? Else why the fuck would Neil want him, right?
So, the "overtime" (not really overtime) pay is a soft target. There's a lot of money there. But that's because there are SO MANY runs that have to be covered. It's phenomenal that Carmine is able to do it at all. What this kid does is crucial to this company's operation. They should be kissing his feet instead of crucifying him over money.
The CFO will just have to find some other way to justify his salary.
Get rid of the Graham Cracker and there's your savings.
So how does the contract negotiations work? the contract is up this July, is the union already in talks with the company ? Does the union ask us what we are looking for in the contract or do they just do what they think is right by us of what they think should be in the contract?