No complaints!

[Buzz]

Just called our delegate to verify an assumption on my part, but it's absolutely true ... Not one single person called the union to complain about the raise they got in this week's check!

[terminator]

No way Buzz! Your lying!...I am sure people complained!...LMAO
hey just noticed im a newbie...lol

[Grrr]

I have a question in regard to your idiotic, union promoting post.

How many called and said it was the best raise they ever got?   No

story.  Just a number.

[Buzz]

[Grrr]

http://files6.fliiby.com/images/_original/g2dc97icn2.jpg

[mirrorcheck]

If someone doesnt like the raise they certainly are free to cash said check and mail the union the extra money in the check. 

[Buzz]

Nah ... they'd rather badmouth the union all the way to the bank.

[Grrr]

If someone doesnt like the raise they certainly are free to cash said check and mail the union the extra money in the check. 

Be very careful.  I don't usually get involved with people who have an extra 21st chromosone, but I'll make an exception in your case.  I suggest you stay out of any future chats between me and the shill.

[mirrorcheck]

Careful of what exactly? Here I am offering you an option,and not just to you .....anyone else thats unhappy or doesnt know what to do with the extra funds found in your check. No need to get tough with me. Did I say you by name? Dont take it too heart....because I certainly dont what you said.

[John Eadicicco]

Just a little snippet of fact: You keep jumping up and down about the raise that we received this past Jan. 1! Why NEVER a word on this forum from Buzz and the Buzettes about the ENTIRE contract, which emphatically was a feather in the cap for the CONTRACTORS! Myself and the members of our slate, Tom Salerno Slate asked in person for a copy of the current contract, in person at the 1181 union hall and were REFUSED! WE were told in no uncertain terms that we would receive a copy when everyone else does, when they are printed! We then contacted a labor attorney, who then wrote up a request on behalf of 1181 members of the Salerno Slate, and presented this document to the 1181 office. We were then given a copy of what is called the M.O.A. ...................( memorandum of agreement) The old contract expired June 30, 2009. New contract effective July 1, 2010!!!!!! 1 year without any benefit increase OR Retro Pay increase! In over 20 years in this local I have NOT EVER seen a retro increse in pay! Just a Small bonus which is comical! In the mid 1970's the city was in financial straits as they now are today. City employees were laid off and the city put a freeze on salary increases. An attorney for the PBA negoiated the givebacks from the Police Officers pay freeze and turned it into the Variable Supplemental fund. Which gave EVERY retiree of 20 yrs. of service and above, an annual BONUS that maxes out at $12,000.00, for the rest of there lives! I KNOW we are not the PBA, BUT some people know how to turn a Negative into a Positive. Bottom line this new M.O.A. is severely Lacking!!!!!!!! I have a copy of the new M.O.A. and if anyone has any questions about it I will be glad to share the info!

[Numbers]

John, I personally was not happy with this contract, and alot of people know that. Yes we did get 3 raises in these hard economic times ( not bad ), but pension improvements, yuk ! Paying for health care for retirees benefits, that just opened the door in my opinion. Lets not even get into the give backs for the new hires ! But this is a business, not a CITY job, you should know that by now. As for you running , for whatever you are running for, truthfully I don't  even know which position, what do you think you are going to do ? With the elections right around the corner, don't you think you should start letting people know what you intend to do if elected.

[John Eadicicco]

Numbers, I have had meetings weekly with other candidates for the last 8 months. I put a flyer on your car recently. I KNOW we don't work for the city, but I have been taught and learned a lot about unions in my 37 years of working for them and I have joined a team of experienced people who want BIG changes for our local. I am working on acquiring a site to have a informational meeting, hopefully on Mon. Feb. 7th on S.I. Our slate KNOWS how hard it is to get CHANGES that are Beneficial to the rank and file! My next door neighbor in West Brighton was a city contract negotiator back in the day and I used to constantly pick his brain on the do's and dont's for getting fair contracts. I am PRO Union all the way, but if I feel that we are being shortchanged by our local, I will Stand up and be vocal about it! When I ran for office in the past, our shop steward TOLD drivers and attendants NOT to attend my meeting! I had more than one driver tell me about this. What's everyone afraid of! Getting A BETTER contract!!!!!!!!!!

[Just_Right]

John. Please stop the bull.
When you had your meeting I asked OUR shop steward if I should go. His response was."By all means you should go and anyone else who would like to hear their views by all means go and make your own choice." So  the ONE driver that has his nose up your ass that said OUR shop steward  said that was fabricating a truth.Perhaps it was to make you feel good.
Now did you hear OUR shop steward say that??? I don't think you did. So you should not repeat things not heard by you. Wasn't that learned in the police academy early on???

Whatever your stand is on this union, you should allow us to know,However make sure you talk fact. Those fliers you annoyingly put out spoke nothing but lies.I am part of the majority  that has heard some of your views and to me there is nothing promising and in fact it's the same old things you tried when you ran in the last election, And didn't win. Fact is you  received less than 500 votes. And that to me is poor campaigning since we have thousands of members .Do you have a new agenda that you can share with us?

I wish people would stop saying what OUR shop steward says things to them alone when we all know when Ernie speaks it is to everyone.
BTW  I was at the safety class  when you raised your hand and Ernie said as the shop steward he would answer any question and if he didn't have the answer he would get it for us.You kept waving your hand saying you had something to say,and he answered you and said he would answer anything you wanted after the class. YOU never even spoke to him after the class, and I was right behind you because I wanted to know what you wanted to speak to him about. Instead you walked right out the door. So was that just a show in front of your pals? Or did you honestly have a senior moment?
I am in this industry longer than you John and I know all about your police days. I'm tired of this union being compared to it. I do not belong to the CITY nor does 1181.We have a strong union. We don't need to copycat others.

[John Eadicicco]

What I had to say at the safety meeting had NOTHING to do with Ernie so take you nose out of his ass. It had to do with ALL members. So why don't you identify yourself to me and we will have a gentlemanly face to face and I will explain how myself and our slate will change things for the better! And if you have more time on this job than I do, therein lies part of the problem. Have a wonderful weekend!

[Buzz]

Just a little snippet of fact: You keep jumping up and down about the raise that we received this past Jan. 1! Why NEVER a word on this forum from Buzz and the Buzettes about the ENTIRE contract, which emphatically was a feather in the cap for the CONTRACTORS!

John, I made a conscious decision not to be the first one to give in to sarcasm or other non-complimentary remarks this time around, but if you want to take it in a different direction I'm more than able to accommodate you. Because others agree with some of my views does not make them followers of me. The "Buzettes," as you call them just happen to support their local and executive board of their own volition, away and apart from my opinion. They are not my disciples.

Just a little snippet of fact: You keep jumping up and down about the raise that we received this past Jan. 1! Why NEVER a word on this forum from Buzz and the Buzettes about the ENTIRE contract, which emphatically was a feather in the cap for the CONTRACTORS!

Feather in the cap of the contractors is not a "snippet of fact." That is strictly your opinion and only opinion, not fact. What, specifically, is wrong with the "entire" contract? What do you object to ... benefits for retirees? Increased dental and eyeglass benefits? Pension increase? Or ... a 9% raise in less than 3 years? Instead of 2,3 and 4%, would you have preferred to get retro from July, 2009 and 1%, 2% and 3%? Would that have made you happy?

Myself and the members of our slate, Tom Salerno Slate asked in person for a copy of the current contract, in person at the 1181 union hall and were REFUSED! WE were told in no uncertain terms that we would receive a copy when everyone else does, when they are printed!

You got the appropriate response. Why in the world should you or anybody else get a copy of the contract before any of the rest of us?

I have a copy of the new M.O.A. and if anyone has any questions about it I will be glad to share the info!

We all have a copy of the MOA ... they were sent to our houses last year. But thanks for the offer.


John, you have been down this road before. Criticizing, bashing, and smearing our EB, but not telling us what you and your guys would do differently and exactly how you would do it. That strategy the last time worked for you with all of 494 voters. Can you honestly expect to do the exact same thing this time and get different results? You need another game plan.

Here's your chance to shine: You think this was a terrible contract. Tell me exactly how you would have gotten a better one after the contractors said, in effect, "That's our final offer. There is nothing else to talk about. Present this to your people. Negotiations are OVER."

Please tell me exactly what you would do, and don't say "Go back and talk some more." They have already made it clear that is not an option.

[Grrr]

Careful of what exactly? Here I am offering you an option,and not just to you .....anyone else thats unhappy or doesnt know what to do with the extra funds found in your check. No need to get tough with me. Did I say you by name? Dont take it too heart....because I certainly dont what you said.

Don't offer me an option.
Don't offer me advice.
Don't tell me what to do with my money. 
Don't reply to me.
Don't reply to anyone about me.

And I will return the same.

Goodbye........

[Buzz]

John, I personally was not happy with this contract, and alot of people know that. Yes we did get 3 raises in these hard economic times ( not bad ), but pension improvements, yuk ! Paying for health care for retirees benefits, that just opened the door in my opinion. Lets not even get into the give backs for the new hires !

Appreciate your opinion, Numbers, but just let me chime in on the points you made, in reverse order. The new hires ... well, I'm thankful the union thought current members took precedence over people who don't even have a job yet. It's not like a second tier was created ... they will catch up to us eventually, it'll just take longer now. Hard for me to see this as a bad thing when I look around the drivers room every morning and see casuals tripping over each other. But, I do acknowledge that you may see it differently.

I guess whether somebody is for or against contributing to retiree benefits has a lot to do with how far away from retirement they are. I can't guarantee the amount will never go up, but I doubt it would without getting something in return. When you look at what's happening with health care in this country it's just the reality of where we are as a society and I don't know that we should expect not to be affected. Also, don't forget, of the money we contribute 70% goes to retirees, 30% goes for increased eyeglass, dental and other benefits.

We do agree that the raises are "not bad." I would go a little further to say they are "very good." I recently learned that drivers for Roadway and Yellow freight carriers, (Teamsters local 707),  gave back 15% of their gross to keep their jobs. Their pensions were also frozen. I know ... that's them, not us, but speaking strictly for myself, it makes me all the more thankful for what 1181 has been able to do for us.

Just my opinion, and I value yours. Thanks for contributing.

[mirrorcheck]

Grr I was speaking to others if they were unhappy,not you....I can care less about you. I was openly speaking,please do not try and deny me my right to free speech nor dont ever try and intimidate me.  I didnt you when a few months ago(on the other site) you made an off color remark about the time of day I made a post. You openly jumped into my personal business...dont change it around saying I was getting into yours. I will continue to say what I want when I want,,,,,enjoy the rest of your 3 day weekend! 

[Just_Right]

John
I do not take offense to your silly comment about me being the problem here.
I know that I along with all the other drivers here with as much time and experience
That we have, we are NOT the problem BUT the SOLUTION. We  know what works and what don't.
I spoke of Ernie in my post because You stated in your post that a "driver" told you Ernie told him not to go to your meeting. Now why didn't Ernie say that to me and the other  drivers asking that question?
That does not constitute My nose up Ernie's ass. I just stated fact.

Now  let me address your remark about you not having nothing to do with Ernie at the meeting.
I NEVER said what you had to say at the meeting had anything to do with Ernie.
If I may, allow me to remind you that you kept raising your hand to speak. WHAT pray tell was so important for you to wave your hand so furiously? I heard him say  he would answer any questions after the class, you decided to walk out instead of ask your urgent question?
EXACTLY!!
We were at a SAFETY meeting. Not YOUR meeting to speak to the members of 1181.
Why get upset with me? Is it because I blew up your spot?  Or as that your way of slipping in your stand on
This union and how you are going to FIX it? Or is it because I questioned you about your absent question?

C'mon John why would you want to speak gentlemanly to me now? When you didn't bother before? I'll tell you why it's because now you have an agenda. You speak of making changes, is this correct? Then speak on here. Let's hear what your FIX is.
Then I will decide if it's worth my time to attend one of your meetings. I and many others  have minds of our  own. What does my identity have to do with your questions? I  am 1181,do you  need to  know more than that? I am the face and being of an 1181 driver.
Will it make  your stand on election better?



I enjoy this quote:

So for a good old-gentlemanly vice,
I think I must take up with avarice.
George Gordon Noel Byron

The definition for avarice is:  insatiable desire for wealth or gain : greediness

Members?

[mirrorcheck]

John, I think the few points you  have made since I have been here do make some sense. My concern is only with how you would achieve this. Until I hear any concrete plans I cant be persuaded to walk down a road with those signs. We did that for President in 2008....I see how that is working out and feel it more,Thanks.

[Buzz]

Got to admit, John, I'm a little curious also as to why you were waving your hand like a kid who wasn't going to get permission to go to the bathroom in time. What was it that you wanted to ask or say?

[Buzz]

My concern is only with how you would achieve this. Until I hear any concrete plans I cant be persuaded to walk down a road with those signs.

With the elections right around the corner, don't you think you should start letting people know what you intend to do if elected.

Do you have a new agenda that you can share with us?

Here's your chance to shine: You think this was a terrible contract. Tell me exactly how you would have gotten a better one after the contractors said, in effect, "That's our final offer. There is nothing else to talk about. Present this to your people. Negotiations are OVER."

Please tell me exactly what you would do, and don't say "Go back and talk some more." They have already made it clear that is not an option.

(I know ... it's a grasshopper ... LOL)

[terminator]

For those of you that dont like the contract LOOK AROUND! Do you see whats going on outside of the school bus driver world? I KNOW we DONT work for the city but Sanitation is demoting people..FDNY and NYPD new hires now have to work for 22.5 yrs for 40% pension 25 yrs for 50% pension and OT is NOT pensionable. As for healthcare - city employees and retires are paying MORE now than ever for benefits. As I said I KNOW we DONT work for the city but dont live in a shell - check private industry see what the average guy pays for benefots/healthcare. As for our 'little' raise - I WANT MORE too...but in these time what do you expect? 10% each year?
Unfortunately my friends those days are over. As for anyone running for election - if you want vote you need to be SPECIFIC how you would get bigger raises. The statement of we would get you more just doesnt cut it.

[GMC JOE]

Where can I read about those changes for the NYPD ?

[Buzz]

For those of you that dont like the contract LOOK AROUND! Do you see whats going on outside of the school bus driver world? I KNOW we DONT work for the city but Sanitation is demoting people..FDNY and NYPD new hires now have to work for 22.5 yrs for 40% pension 25 yrs for 50% pension and OT is NOT pensionable. As for healthcare - city employees and retires are paying MORE now than ever for benefits. As I said I KNOW we DONT work for the city but dont live in a shell - check private industry see what the average guy pays for benefots/healthcare. As for our 'little' raise - I WANT MORE too...but in these time what do you expect? 10% each year?
Unfortunately my friends those days are over. As for anyone running for election - if you want vote you need to be SPECIFIC how you would get bigger raises. The statement of we would get you more just doesnt cut it.

Bravo! Bravo!! 

As GMC JOE asked, where did you get the info on the city pensions? Pension reform is loooong overdue. PD recruitment website still says half after 20.  http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_RetirementBenefits.aspx

[John Eadicicco]

Fed Up.. I didn't mean specifically YOU when I was talking about the problems of past history. What I meant was that going back far in the history of 1181, The younger drivers who are now the senior men, did NOT think that a serious boost to the pension was NOT gonna happen. When I started, it seemed like EVERY contract negotiation did NOT address a pension raise. Then all of a sudden drivers say' WOW 'where the heck did the last 20 some odd years go. Now for THEM pension dollars is the cat's meow! The monetary raises that we receive, I have not a problem with, I never stated that! I don't like the fact that we don't get retro money, and the contract this time,  has time lapses between the end date and start date, a feather in the cap for the contractors!!!!!!!!When you give back in negotiations, you should receive something in return, and I'm not talking money. If the contractors want a year added to top pay, then we want a personal day in return. That's what I wanna see! Stuff like that. Now in response to take this contract or leave it..........................1181 SHOULD have told us the parameters BEFOREHAND about the contract BEFORE they took a strike vote. We had NO IDEA what we wanted to strike for, and then we're told if we don't vote for it we STRIKE..........NOBODY WANTS TO GO ON STRIKE!!!!!!!!

[John Eadicicco]

OOPS I meant Just_right!

[Buzz]

When you give back in negotiations, you should receive something in return, and I'm not talking money. If the contractors want a year added to top pay, then we want a personal day in return. That's what I wanna see! Stuff like that.

We work 183 days a year. We will never see personal days. We did receive something in return: 9% raise, increased pension, increased health benefits, retiree benefits.

Now in response to take this contract or leave it..........................1181 SHOULD have told us the parameters BEFOREHAND about the contract BEFORE they took a strike vote. We had NO IDEA what we wanted to strike for, and then we're told if we don't vote for it we STRIKE..........NOBODY WANTS TO GO ON STRIKE!!!!!!!!

But Michael did tell us at the strike vote meeting. He told us they basically wanted to give us nothing. After they knew he had our authority to call a strike, they started sharpening their pencils. The strike vote is a negotiating tool.

Once they've said basically, "This is our final offer, negotiations are over," we have two choices: 1) Accept the contract or 2) Strike.

Now, suppose we didn't have a strike vote meeting when we did. Suppose we waited to have an MOA in hand, as you suggest, then vote whether to accept it or strike. Do you think that MOA would have bared any resemblance to what we have now? Of course not! It wouldn't have been half of what it is now because Michael wouldn't have had the power to strike to use as leverage in negotiations. The contract would have been rejected, we'd be forced to go on strike ... and in the end, have the same contract we have now. The only difference is we would have lost days, weeks, or months of pay to get there.

The point is, no matter when the strike vote was taken, the options would have been the same: Accept it, or reject it (strike). There are no other options at that point. There's no getting away from it, so why do you keep making an issue of it? You claim to have all kinds of experience with union issues and negotiations, how could this not seem obvious and irrefutable to you?

[terminator]

Buzz...i looked at the site you provided...still has the old pension info on it - no surprise!...lol
I got my info from my neighbors kid who just became a cop in december...he said the city made a new "tier" - tier 3. I dont have any other info except what the kid told me.

[GMC JOE]

  I can not find anything in black and white on this . I did also here the same for the new borns in NYPD .

WHEN will cuts appear in political Appointments and creations that they create to take care of paybacks  end and be done away with ?                                                                                                                                         ANSWER:  WHEN WE START VOTING OUT EVERYONE IN THERE AND KEEP DOING the same  UNTIL THEY SHOW US RESULTS. THEY WORK FOR THE PEOPLE ,THEY MUST LEARN THIS AGAIN !

ALL LEVELS OF FEDERAL STATE CITY GOVERNMENTS MUST BE SENT HOME 

[GMC JOE]

Off the track with last post ,but I am fed up with  the politics they try to shove down our throats without the real cuts being made.

[Buzz]

Sorry to disagree with you, GMC, but a system whereby an employee can be paid a pension for about TWICE as long as he worked is unsustainable. Generous plans like this have driven many municipalities (and some companies!) into bankruptcy. Maybe years ago it was necessary to attract people to what were generally lower paying civil service jobs. But today, those pension payments are more than many people make who are still working in private industry ... and will have to do so for much longer than 20 years.

A little confusing, but I found this post on "Thee Rant" for you  ... http://theerant.yuku.com/topic/26495/t/Tier-5--Preserves-20-Year-Pension--Cops--Firefighters-Despit.html

[GMC JOE]

Well Buzz ,if someone took a job that detailed certain benefits ,those benefits must remain.IF you want to change the benefits it must go to new employees. IF they don't like it then don't take the job .

[Buzz]

Well Buzz ,if someone took a job that detailed certain benefits ,those benefits must remain.IF you want to change the benefits it must go to new employees. IF they don't like it then don't take the job .

Oh, absolutely agree ... I thought we're talking about new hires. Can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

[Just_Right]

I have to say Buzz your response to John on his stand of *personal days* was right on.Perhaps his slate should look more into another pension plan or an additional one.We all know we don't work like the NYPD or the NYFD. This is a school bus we're talking about. Where does a personal day fit in? Duh! it doesn't.
Us *seasonal* drivers OR as we are referred to as the *problem*,know that is not  in the cards for us.