George Will's columns usually are! Wish he'd run for president.

Quote from: GMC JOE on January 20, 2011, 06:00:39 PM
Well Buzz ,if someone took a job that detailed certain benefits ,those benefits must remain.IF you want to change the benefits it must go to new employees. IF they don't like it then don't take the job .

Oh, absolutely agree ... I thought we're talking about new hires. Can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

Thanks, bug ... just came on again to post that.

Could you imagine how pissed Bloomy would be if they did and end run around him on this issue?!! He'd really throw a hissy-fit! 

(But I have a feeling he could pull enough strings in Albany to make sure it doesn't.)

Looking at that photo, I guess it could have been a lot worse, with a lot more injuries, had the plow it more toward the middle of the bus. Hope the injuries aren't serious.

Sorry to disagree with you, GMC, but a system whereby an employee can be paid a pension for about TWICE as long as he worked is unsustainable. Generous plans like this have driven many municipalities (and some companies!) into bankruptcy. Maybe years ago it was necessary to attract people to what were generally lower paying civil service jobs. But today, those pension payments are more than many people make who are still working in private industry ... and will have to do so for much longer than 20 years.

A little confusing, but I found this post on "Thee Rant" for you  ... http://theerant.yuku.com/topic/26495/t/Tier-5--Preserves-20-Year-Pension--Cops--Firefighters-Despit.html

Mary's (dispatcher) father passed away. The wake will be at Matthew Funeral Home Thursday and Friday. More info in obit link below.
Our thoughts and prayers are with Mary and her family. Condolences to all.

http://obits.silive.com/obituaries/siadvance/obituary.aspx?n=john-j-ruggirello&pid=147947072

Wow ... looks bad. Found this picture of the wreck:





Photo from YNN.com ... http://centralny.ynn.com/content/top_stories/530662/snowplow--school-bus-collide-in-wayne-county/

Quote from: John Eadicicco on January 18, 2011, 10:49:43 PM
When you give back in negotiations, you should receive something in return, and I'm not talking money. If the contractors want a year added to top pay, then we want a personal day in return. That's what I wanna see! Stuff like that.

We work 183 days a year. We will never see personal days. We did receive something in return: 9% raise, increased pension, increased health benefits, retiree benefits.

Quote from: John Eadicicco on January 18, 2011, 10:49:43 PM
Now in response to take this contract or leave it..........................1181 SHOULD have told us the parameters BEFOREHAND about the contract BEFORE they took a strike vote. We had NO IDEA what we wanted to strike for, and then we're told if we don't vote for it we STRIKE..........NOBODY WANTS TO GO ON STRIKE!!!!!!!!

But Michael did tell us at the strike vote meeting. He told us they basically wanted to give us nothing. After they knew he had our authority to call a strike, they started sharpening their pencils. The strike vote is a negotiating tool.

Once they've said basically, "This is our final offer, negotiations are over," we have two choices: 1) Accept the contract or 2) Strike.

Now, suppose we didn't have a strike vote meeting when we did. Suppose we waited to have an MOA in hand, as you suggest, then vote whether to accept it or strike. Do you think that MOA would have bared any resemblance to what we have now? Of course not! It wouldn't have been half of what it is now because Michael wouldn't have had the power to strike to use as leverage in negotiations. The contract would have been rejected, we'd be forced to go on strike ... and in the end, have the same contract we have now. The only difference is we would have lost days, weeks, or months of pay to get there.

The point is, no matter when the strike vote was taken, the options would have been the same: Accept it, or reject it (strike). There are no other options at that point. There's no getting away from it, so why do you keep making an issue of it? You claim to have all kinds of experience with union issues and negotiations, how could this not seem obvious and irrefutable to you?

Quote from: terminator on January 18, 2011, 05:15:52 PM
For those of you that dont like the contract LOOK AROUND! Do you see whats going on outside of the school bus driver world? I KNOW we DONT work for the city but Sanitation is demoting people..FDNY and NYPD new hires now have to work for 22.5 yrs for 40% pension 25 yrs for 50% pension and OT is NOT pensionable. As for healthcare - city employees and retires are paying MORE now than ever for benefits. As I said I KNOW we DONT work for the city but dont live in a shell - check private industry see what the average guy pays for benefots/healthcare. As for our 'little' raise - I WANT MORE too...but in these time what do you expect? 10% each year?
Unfortunately my friends those days are over. As for anyone running for election - if you want vote you need to be SPECIFIC how you would get bigger raises. The statement of we would get you more just doesnt cut it.

Bravo! Bravo!! 

As GMC JOE asked, where did you get the info on the city pensions? Pension reform is loooong overdue. PD recruitment website still says half after 20.  http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_RetirementBenefits.aspx

Quote from: mirrorcheck on January 16, 2011, 09:32:52 PM
My concern is only with how you would achieve this. Until I hear any concrete plans I cant be persuaded to walk down a road with those signs.

Quote from: Numbers on January 15, 2011, 07:09:01 PM
With the elections right around the corner, don't you think you should start letting people know what you intend to do if elected.

Quote from: Just_Right on January 15, 2011, 09:29:00 PM
Do you have a new agenda that you can share with us?

Quote from: Buzz on January 16, 2011, 01:42:11 AM
Here's your chance to shine: You think this was a terrible contract. Tell me exactly how you would have gotten a better one after the contractors said, in effect, "That's our final offer. There is nothing else to talk about. Present this to your people. Negotiations are OVER."

Please tell me exactly what you would do, and don't say "Go back and talk some more." They have already made it clear that is not an option.

(I know ... it's a grasshopper ... LOL)

Uppity snob!

Got to admit, John, I'm a little curious also as to why you were waving your hand like a kid who wasn't going to get permission to go to the bathroom in time. What was it that you wanted to ask or say?

Quote from: Numbers on January 15, 2011, 07:09:01 PM
John, I personally was not happy with this contract, and alot of people know that. Yes we did get 3 raises in these hard economic times ( not bad ), but pension improvements, yuk ! Paying for health care for retirees benefits, that just opened the door in my opinion. Lets not even get into the give backs for the new hires !

Appreciate your opinion, Numbers, but just let me chime in on the points you made, in reverse order. The new hires ... well, I'm thankful the union thought current members took precedence over people who don't even have a job yet. It's not like a second tier was created ... they will catch up to us eventually, it'll just take longer now. Hard for me to see this as a bad thing when I look around the drivers room every morning and see casuals tripping over each other. But, I do acknowledge that you may see it differently.

I guess whether somebody is for or against contributing to retiree benefits has a lot to do with how far away from retirement they are. I can't guarantee the amount will never go up, but I doubt it would without getting something in return. When you look at what's happening with health care in this country it's just the reality of where we are as a society and I don't know that we should expect not to be affected. Also, don't forget, of the money we contribute 70% goes to retirees, 30% goes for increased eyeglass, dental and other benefits.

We do agree that the raises are "not bad." I would go a little further to say they are "very good." I recently learned that drivers for Roadway and Yellow freight carriers, (Teamsters local 707),  gave back 15% of their gross to keep their jobs. Their pensions were also frozen. I know ... that's them, not us, but speaking strictly for myself, it makes me all the more thankful for what 1181 has been able to do for us.

Just my opinion, and I value yours. Thanks for contributing.

Quote from: John Eadicicco on January 15, 2011, 06:36:55 PM
Just a little snippet of fact: You keep jumping up and down about the raise that we received this past Jan. 1! Why NEVER a word on this forum from Buzz and the Buzettes about the ENTIRE contract, which emphatically was a feather in the cap for the CONTRACTORS!

John, I made a conscious decision not to be the first one to give in to sarcasm or other non-complimentary remarks this time around, but if you want to take it in a different direction I'm more than able to accommodate you. Because others agree with some of my views does not make them followers of me. The "Buzettes," as you call them just happen to support their local and executive board of their own volition, away and apart from my opinion. They are not my disciples.

Quote from: John Eadicicco on January 15, 2011, 06:36:55 PM
Just a little snippet of fact: You keep jumping up and down about the raise that we received this past Jan. 1! Why NEVER a word on this forum from Buzz and the Buzettes about the ENTIRE contract, which emphatically was a feather in the cap for the CONTRACTORS!

Feather in the cap of the contractors is not a "snippet of fact." That is strictly your opinion and only opinion, not fact. What, specifically, is wrong with the "entire" contract? What do you object to ... benefits for retirees? Increased dental and eyeglass benefits? Pension increase? Or ... a 9% raise in less than 3 years? Instead of 2,3 and 4%, would you have preferred to get retro from July, 2009 and 1%, 2% and 3%? Would that have made you happy?

Quote from: John Eadicicco on January 15, 2011, 06:36:55 PM
Myself and the members of our slate, Tom Salerno Slate asked in person for a copy of the current contract, in person at the 1181 union hall and were REFUSED! WE were told in no uncertain terms that we would receive a copy when everyone else does, when they are printed!

You got the appropriate response. Why in the world should you or anybody else get a copy of the contract before any of the rest of us?

Quote from: John Eadicicco on January 15, 2011, 06:36:55 PMI have a copy of the new M.O.A. and if anyone has any questions about it I will be glad to share the info!

We all have a copy of the MOA ... they were sent to our houses last year. But thanks for the offer.


John, you have been down this road before. Criticizing, bashing, and smearing our EB, but not telling us what you and your guys would do differently and exactly how you would do it. That strategy the last time worked for you with all of 494 voters. Can you honestly expect to do the exact same thing this time and get different results? You need another game plan.

Here's your chance to shine: You think this was a terrible contract. Tell me exactly how you would have gotten a better one after the contractors said, in effect, "That's our final offer. There is nothing else to talk about. Present this to your people. Negotiations are OVER."

Please tell me exactly what you would do, and don't say "Go back and talk some more." They have already made it clear that is not an option.

This topic has been moved to Work Related.

http://1181drivers.com/smf/index.php?topic=42.0