No complaints!

[Grrr]

Careful of what exactly? Here I am offering you an option,and not just to you .....anyone else thats unhappy or doesnt know what to do with the extra funds found in your check. No need to get tough with me. Did I say you by name? Dont take it too heart....because I certainly dont what you said.

Don't offer me an option.
Don't offer me advice.
Don't tell me what to do with my money. 
Don't reply to me.
Don't reply to anyone about me.

And I will return the same.

Goodbye........

[Buzz]

John, I personally was not happy with this contract, and alot of people know that. Yes we did get 3 raises in these hard economic times ( not bad ), but pension improvements, yuk ! Paying for health care for retirees benefits, that just opened the door in my opinion. Lets not even get into the give backs for the new hires !

Appreciate your opinion, Numbers, but just let me chime in on the points you made, in reverse order. The new hires ... well, I'm thankful the union thought current members took precedence over people who don't even have a job yet. It's not like a second tier was created ... they will catch up to us eventually, it'll just take longer now. Hard for me to see this as a bad thing when I look around the drivers room every morning and see casuals tripping over each other. But, I do acknowledge that you may see it differently.

I guess whether somebody is for or against contributing to retiree benefits has a lot to do with how far away from retirement they are. I can't guarantee the amount will never go up, but I doubt it would without getting something in return. When you look at what's happening with health care in this country it's just the reality of where we are as a society and I don't know that we should expect not to be affected. Also, don't forget, of the money we contribute 70% goes to retirees, 30% goes for increased eyeglass, dental and other benefits.

We do agree that the raises are "not bad." I would go a little further to say they are "very good." I recently learned that drivers for Roadway and Yellow freight carriers, (Teamsters local 707),  gave back 15% of their gross to keep their jobs. Their pensions were also frozen. I know ... that's them, not us, but speaking strictly for myself, it makes me all the more thankful for what 1181 has been able to do for us.

Just my opinion, and I value yours. Thanks for contributing.

[mirrorcheck]

Grr I was speaking to others if they were unhappy,not you....I can care less about you. I was openly speaking,please do not try and deny me my right to free speech nor dont ever try and intimidate me.  I didnt you when a few months ago(on the other site) you made an off color remark about the time of day I made a post. You openly jumped into my personal business...dont change it around saying I was getting into yours. I will continue to say what I want when I want,,,,,enjoy the rest of your 3 day weekend! 

[Just_Right]

John
I do not take offense to your silly comment about me being the problem here.
I know that I along with all the other drivers here with as much time and experience
That we have, we are NOT the problem BUT the SOLUTION. We  know what works and what don't.
I spoke of Ernie in my post because You stated in your post that a "driver" told you Ernie told him not to go to your meeting. Now why didn't Ernie say that to me and the other  drivers asking that question?
That does not constitute My nose up Ernie's ass. I just stated fact.

Now  let me address your remark about you not having nothing to do with Ernie at the meeting.
I NEVER said what you had to say at the meeting had anything to do with Ernie.
If I may, allow me to remind you that you kept raising your hand to speak. WHAT pray tell was so important for you to wave your hand so furiously? I heard him say  he would answer any questions after the class, you decided to walk out instead of ask your urgent question?
EXACTLY!!
We were at a SAFETY meeting. Not YOUR meeting to speak to the members of 1181.
Why get upset with me? Is it because I blew up your spot?  Or as that your way of slipping in your stand on
This union and how you are going to FIX it? Or is it because I questioned you about your absent question?

C'mon John why would you want to speak gentlemanly to me now? When you didn't bother before? I'll tell you why it's because now you have an agenda. You speak of making changes, is this correct? Then speak on here. Let's hear what your FIX is.
Then I will decide if it's worth my time to attend one of your meetings. I and many others  have minds of our  own. What does my identity have to do with your questions? I  am 1181,do you  need to  know more than that? I am the face and being of an 1181 driver.
Will it make  your stand on election better?



I enjoy this quote:

So for a good old-gentlemanly vice,
I think I must take up with avarice.
George Gordon Noel Byron

The definition for avarice is:  insatiable desire for wealth or gain : greediness

Members?

[mirrorcheck]

John, I think the few points you  have made since I have been here do make some sense. My concern is only with how you would achieve this. Until I hear any concrete plans I cant be persuaded to walk down a road with those signs. We did that for President in 2008....I see how that is working out and feel it more,Thanks.

[Buzz]

Got to admit, John, I'm a little curious also as to why you were waving your hand like a kid who wasn't going to get permission to go to the bathroom in time. What was it that you wanted to ask or say?

[Buzz]

My concern is only with how you would achieve this. Until I hear any concrete plans I cant be persuaded to walk down a road with those signs.

With the elections right around the corner, don't you think you should start letting people know what you intend to do if elected.

Do you have a new agenda that you can share with us?

Here's your chance to shine: You think this was a terrible contract. Tell me exactly how you would have gotten a better one after the contractors said, in effect, "That's our final offer. There is nothing else to talk about. Present this to your people. Negotiations are OVER."

Please tell me exactly what you would do, and don't say "Go back and talk some more." They have already made it clear that is not an option.

(I know ... it's a grasshopper ... LOL)

[terminator]

For those of you that dont like the contract LOOK AROUND! Do you see whats going on outside of the school bus driver world? I KNOW we DONT work for the city but Sanitation is demoting people..FDNY and NYPD new hires now have to work for 22.5 yrs for 40% pension 25 yrs for 50% pension and OT is NOT pensionable. As for healthcare - city employees and retires are paying MORE now than ever for benefits. As I said I KNOW we DONT work for the city but dont live in a shell - check private industry see what the average guy pays for benefots/healthcare. As for our 'little' raise - I WANT MORE too...but in these time what do you expect? 10% each year?
Unfortunately my friends those days are over. As for anyone running for election - if you want vote you need to be SPECIFIC how you would get bigger raises. The statement of we would get you more just doesnt cut it.

[GMC JOE]

Where can I read about those changes for the NYPD ?

[Buzz]

For those of you that dont like the contract LOOK AROUND! Do you see whats going on outside of the school bus driver world? I KNOW we DONT work for the city but Sanitation is demoting people..FDNY and NYPD new hires now have to work for 22.5 yrs for 40% pension 25 yrs for 50% pension and OT is NOT pensionable. As for healthcare - city employees and retires are paying MORE now than ever for benefits. As I said I KNOW we DONT work for the city but dont live in a shell - check private industry see what the average guy pays for benefots/healthcare. As for our 'little' raise - I WANT MORE too...but in these time what do you expect? 10% each year?
Unfortunately my friends those days are over. As for anyone running for election - if you want vote you need to be SPECIFIC how you would get bigger raises. The statement of we would get you more just doesnt cut it.

Bravo! Bravo!! 

As GMC JOE asked, where did you get the info on the city pensions? Pension reform is loooong overdue. PD recruitment website still says half after 20.  http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_RetirementBenefits.aspx

[John Eadicicco]

Fed Up.. I didn't mean specifically YOU when I was talking about the problems of past history. What I meant was that going back far in the history of 1181, The younger drivers who are now the senior men, did NOT think that a serious boost to the pension was NOT gonna happen. When I started, it seemed like EVERY contract negotiation did NOT address a pension raise. Then all of a sudden drivers say' WOW 'where the heck did the last 20 some odd years go. Now for THEM pension dollars is the cat's meow! The monetary raises that we receive, I have not a problem with, I never stated that! I don't like the fact that we don't get retro money, and the contract this time,  has time lapses between the end date and start date, a feather in the cap for the contractors!!!!!!!!When you give back in negotiations, you should receive something in return, and I'm not talking money. If the contractors want a year added to top pay, then we want a personal day in return. That's what I wanna see! Stuff like that. Now in response to take this contract or leave it..........................1181 SHOULD have told us the parameters BEFOREHAND about the contract BEFORE they took a strike vote. We had NO IDEA what we wanted to strike for, and then we're told if we don't vote for it we STRIKE..........NOBODY WANTS TO GO ON STRIKE!!!!!!!!

[John Eadicicco]

OOPS I meant Just_right!

[Buzz]

When you give back in negotiations, you should receive something in return, and I'm not talking money. If the contractors want a year added to top pay, then we want a personal day in return. That's what I wanna see! Stuff like that.

We work 183 days a year. We will never see personal days. We did receive something in return: 9% raise, increased pension, increased health benefits, retiree benefits.

Now in response to take this contract or leave it..........................1181 SHOULD have told us the parameters BEFOREHAND about the contract BEFORE they took a strike vote. We had NO IDEA what we wanted to strike for, and then we're told if we don't vote for it we STRIKE..........NOBODY WANTS TO GO ON STRIKE!!!!!!!!

But Michael did tell us at the strike vote meeting. He told us they basically wanted to give us nothing. After they knew he had our authority to call a strike, they started sharpening their pencils. The strike vote is a negotiating tool.

Once they've said basically, "This is our final offer, negotiations are over," we have two choices: 1) Accept the contract or 2) Strike.

Now, suppose we didn't have a strike vote meeting when we did. Suppose we waited to have an MOA in hand, as you suggest, then vote whether to accept it or strike. Do you think that MOA would have bared any resemblance to what we have now? Of course not! It wouldn't have been half of what it is now because Michael wouldn't have had the power to strike to use as leverage in negotiations. The contract would have been rejected, we'd be forced to go on strike ... and in the end, have the same contract we have now. The only difference is we would have lost days, weeks, or months of pay to get there.

The point is, no matter when the strike vote was taken, the options would have been the same: Accept it, or reject it (strike). There are no other options at that point. There's no getting away from it, so why do you keep making an issue of it? You claim to have all kinds of experience with union issues and negotiations, how could this not seem obvious and irrefutable to you?

[terminator]

Buzz...i looked at the site you provided...still has the old pension info on it - no surprise!...lol
I got my info from my neighbors kid who just became a cop in december...he said the city made a new "tier" - tier 3. I dont have any other info except what the kid told me.

[GMC JOE]

  I can not find anything in black and white on this . I did also here the same for the new borns in NYPD .

WHEN will cuts appear in political Appointments and creations that they create to take care of paybacks  end and be done away with ?                                                                                                                                         ANSWER:  WHEN WE START VOTING OUT EVERYONE IN THERE AND KEEP DOING the same  UNTIL THEY SHOW US RESULTS. THEY WORK FOR THE PEOPLE ,THEY MUST LEARN THIS AGAIN !

ALL LEVELS OF FEDERAL STATE CITY GOVERNMENTS MUST BE SENT HOME